What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[CountDeMoney]

I'll file that one under "D" for "Duh".  Or "derspeiss".

[frunk]

There are trump supporters across the street from my office.  They have signs like "Defend Trump!" and "Putin saves dog from FBI".  I can't tell if they are being silly or are very, very dumb.

[Eddie Teach]

I'd like to hear the story behind Putin and the dog.

[Grinning_Colossus]

I suspect that the dog in question may be HRC--the implication being that, if she'd won, the FBI would be investigating her instead.

That or they're talking about those stray animals in Moscow that the US modified with, like, antennae in their tails and cameras for eyes to spy on the Russians, but that would really be more the CIA's bag, wouldn't it?

[frunk]

I suspect that the dog in question may be HRC--the implication being that, if she'd won, the FBI would be investigating her instead.

The argument being that Putin did interfere in the election, and that therefore we should support Trump because....

[Grinning_Colossus]

I suspect that the dog in question may be HRC--the implication being that, if she'd won, the FBI would be investigating her instead.

The argument being that Putin did interfere in the election, and that therefore we should support Trump because....

More of an underlying assumption, but yes.

[Razgovory]

The Nationalist's Delusion
Trump's supporters backed a time-honored American political tradition, disavowing racism while promising to enact a broad agenda of discrimination.
...

While other factors also led to Trump's victory [...] had racism been toxic to the American electorate, Trump's candidacy would not have been viable.

Nearly a year into his presidency, Trump has reneged or faltered on many of his biggest campaign promises—on renegotiating nafta, punishing China, and replacing the Affordable Care Act with something that preserves all of its popular provisions but with none of its drawbacks. But his commitment to endorsing state violence to remake the country into something resembling an idealized past has not wavered.

...

When you look at Trump's strength among white Americans of all income levels, but his weakness among Americans struggling with poverty, the story of Trump looks less like a story of working-class revolt than a story of white backlash. And the stories of struggling white Trump supporters look less like the whole truth than a convenient narrative—one that obscures the racist nature of that backlash, instead casting it as a rebellion against an unfeeling establishment that somehow includes working-class and poor people who happen not to be white.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/

There really seems to be war in the Democratic party.  The economist facstion vs the culturalist faction.   The economist faction is made up those who believe the way forward is stronger focus on economic issues.  The Culturalist are the ones who focus more on culture issues such as race and sexual harassment.  Sanders was favored by the economist faction and Clinton was favored by Culturalist faction.  I'm kind of shifting over to the economist faction myself, if only because I don't see fruitful path in trying to get White Alabamans to like black people or show much interest in women's rights.  I mean, you have bunch of them ready to elect a person accused of pedophilia, I don't think they are going to turn on a dime and become feminists and they would go red before they would go black.

[garbon]

The Nationalist's Delusion
Trump's supporters backed a time-honored American political tradition, disavowing racism while promising to enact a broad agenda of discrimination.
...

While other factors also led to Trump's victory [...] had racism been toxic to the American electorate, Trump's candidacy would not have been viable.

Nearly a year into his presidency, Trump has reneged or faltered on many of his biggest campaign promises—on renegotiating nafta, punishing China, and replacing the Affordable Care Act with something that preserves all of its popular provisions but with none of its drawbacks. But his commitment to endorsing state violence to remake the country into something resembling an idealized past has not wavered.

...

When you look at Trump's strength among white Americans of all income levels, but his weakness among Americans struggling with poverty, the story of Trump looks less like a story of working-class revolt than a story of white backlash. And the stories of struggling white Trump supporters look less like the whole truth than a convenient narrative—one that obscures the racist nature of that backlash, instead casting it as a rebellion against an unfeeling establishment that somehow includes working-class and poor people who happen not to be white.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion/546356/

There really seems to be war in the Democratic party.  The economist facstion vs the culturalist faction.   The economist faction is made up those who believe the way forward is stronger focus on economic issues.  The Culturalist are the ones who focus more on culture issues such as race and sexual harassment.  Sanders was favored by the economist faction and Clinton was favored by Culturalist faction.  I'm kind of shifting over to the economist faction myself, if only because I don't see fruitful path in trying to get White Alabamans to like black people or show much interest in women's rights.  I mean, you have bunch of them ready to elect a person accused of pedophilia, I don't think they are going to turn on a dime and become feminists and they would go red before they would go black.

I think you are creating a false duality built on the fact that Bernie's only talking point was his economic philosophy.

[Jacob]

There really seems to be war in the Democratic party.  The economist facstion vs the culturalist faction.   The economist faction is made up those who believe the way forward is stronger focus on economic issues.  The Culturalist are the ones who focus more on culture issues such as race and sexual harassment.  Sanders was favored by the economist faction and Clinton was favored by Culturalist faction.  I'm kind of shifting over to the economist faction myself, if only because I don't see fruitful path in trying to get White Alabamans to like black people or show much interest in women's rights.  I mean, you have bunch of them ready to elect a person accused of pedophilia, I don't think they are going to turn on a dime and become feminists and they would go red before they would go black.

I'm not sure the best strategy for the Democratic Party is necessarily to do what it takes to bring over white Alabamans as a demographic.

[garbon]

There really seems to be war in the Democratic party.  The economist facstion vs the culturalist faction.   The economist faction is made up those who believe the way forward is stronger focus on economic issues.  The Culturalist are the ones who focus more on culture issues such as race and sexual harassment.  Sanders was favored by the economist faction and Clinton was favored by Culturalist faction.  I'm kind of shifting over to the economist faction myself, if only because I don't see fruitful path in trying to get White Alabamans to like black people or show much interest in women's rights.  I mean, you have bunch of them ready to elect a person accused of pedophilia, I don't think they are going to turn on a dime and become feminists and they would go red before they would go black.

I'm not sure the best strategy for the Democratic Party is necessarily to do what it takes to bring over white Alabamans as a demographic.

Particularly given that they don't really seem to care about voting for people who would help them economically.

[Barrister]

There really seems to be war in the Democratic party.  The economist facstion vs the culturalist faction.   The economist faction is made up those who believe the way forward is stronger focus on economic issues.  The Culturalist are the ones who focus more on culture issues such as race and sexual harassment.  Sanders was favored by the economist faction and Clinton was favored by Culturalist faction.  I'm kind of shifting over to the economist faction myself, if only because I don't see fruitful path in trying to get White Alabamans to like black people or show much interest in women's rights.  I mean, you have bunch of them ready to elect a person accused of pedophilia, I don't think they are going to turn on a dime and become feminists and they would go red before they would go black.

I'm not sure the best strategy for the Democratic Party is necessarily to do what it takes to bring over white Alabamans as a demographic.

Maybe not white alabamans specifically, but the Democratic Party has to do better with whites, who made up 71% of voters in 2016.  White voters went for Trump 57% to 37%.

Sure they ran up huge percentages of non-white voters, but that's just too big a disadvantage to come back from.

http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

Unless you mean that what's best for the Democrats is not the same as how to win elections.

[Jacob]

Maybe not white alabamans specifically, but the Democratic Party has to do better with whites, who made up 71% of voters in 2016.  White voters went for Trump 57% to 37%.

Sure they ran up huge percentages of non-white voters, but that's just too big a disadvantage to come back from.

http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

Unless you mean that what's best for the Democrats is not the same as how to win elections.

What strategy do you propose?

[Eddie Teach]

There really seems to be war in the Democratic party.  The economist facstion vs the culturalist faction.   The economist faction is made up those who believe the way forward is stronger focus on economic issues.  The Culturalist are the ones who focus more on culture issues such as race and sexual harassment.  Sanders was favored by the economist faction and Clinton was favored by Culturalist faction.  I'm kind of shifting over to the economist faction myself, if only because I don't see fruitful path in trying to get White Alabamans to like black people or show much interest in women's rights.  I mean, you have bunch of them ready to elect a person accused of pedophilia, I don't think they are going to turn on a dime and become feminists and they would go red before they would go black.

I'm not sure the best strategy for the Democratic Party is necessarily to do what it takes to bring over white Alabamans as a demographic.

They don't need Alabama, but they do need the Rust Belt.

[Barrister]

Maybe not white alabamans specifically, but the Democratic Party has to do better with whites, who made up 71% of voters in 2016.  White voters went for Trump 57% to 37%.

Sure they ran up huge percentages of non-white voters, but that's just too big a disadvantage to come back from.

http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

Unless you mean that what's best for the Democrats is not the same as how to win elections.

What strategy do you propose?

I usually think of politics from a right of centre perspective, but what the heck it's an interesting thought exercise.

I think the kind of identity politics / raz's "cultural faction" is somewhat akin to social conservatives are to the right.  They're your people.  You need them to win, but tacking too hard in that direction will turn off to many voters.  You have to signal that you're "with" those voters, but spend more of your time pushing middle-class pocketbook issues.  In other words listen to Bill - "It's the economy stupid".

[garbon]

I'm coming around to the notion that voters are babies and you need to lie to them.