What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[crazy canuck]

I think that the wariness about buying American arms will persist even if the USA returns to rational governance. a couple of months of batshit nonsense was all it took to hobble a major US industry for the forseeable future.

Memories are short and money talks. How long after the USSR fell did the west rush to open arms and open wallets?

Not a good example, there was a faint hope (in hindsight overblown) that Russia would become a Liberal Democracy.

[grumbler]

I think that the wariness about buying American arms will persist even if the USA returns to rational governance. a couple of months of batshit nonsense was all it took to hobble a major US industry for the forseeable future.

This is my view as well.  The long-term problem for Europe is not the US president, but the US voters.

[Valmy]

I think that the wariness about buying American arms will persist even if the USA returns to rational governance. a couple of months of batshit nonsense was all it took to hobble a major US industry for the forseeable future.

Memories are short and money talks. How long after the USSR fell did the west rush to open arms and open wallets?

Not a good example, there was a faint hope (in hindsight overblown) that Russia would become a Liberal Democracy.

Yeah. There were even dreams Russia would become an American ally.

The Soviet Union was dissolved in December of 1991. In September 1993 Yeltsin did a coup that I think we can agree in retrospect turned Russia into what it is today. So Russia had a whole 21 months of hope. Though I think it did take us awhile to realize that it was over. The new Constitution Yeltsin forced through after the coup effectively made Russia a Presidential Dictatorship.

But delusions based on wishful thinking can linger on.

But this is different. These countries feel wronged. And national grudges can linger on much longer. Especially in Europe.

[The Brain]

I think that the wariness about buying American arms will persist even if the USA returns to rational governance. a couple of months of batshit nonsense was all it took to hobble a major US industry for the forseeable future.

Memories are short and money talks. How long after the USSR fell did the west rush to open arms and open wallets?

Not a good example, there was a faint hope (in hindsight overblown) that Russia would become a Liberal Democracy.

Yeah. There were even dreams Russia would become an American ally.

At least that part came true.

[grumbler]

I heard a phrase describing ICE from a journalist being interviewed by NPR that I thought fit the situation perfectly:  "arrogant cruelty."  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the kind of people who want to work for ICE are the ones cheering for the Storm Troopers in Star Wars, but I am.

[Valmy]

At least that part came true.

 

 

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

I heard a phrase describing ICE from a journalist being interviewed by NPR that I thought fit the situation perfectly:  "arrogant cruelty."  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the kind of people who want to work for ICE are the ones cheering for the Storm Troopers in Star Wars, but I am.

I'm not, though it's scary watching a department I never liked, think shouldn't exist, and have jokingly (with a hint of seriousness) always referred to as the Gestapo... march towards actually becoming something like that.

[fromtia]

I'm not, though it's scary watching a department I never liked, think shouldn't exist, and have jokingly (with a hint of seriousness) always referred to as the Gestapo... march towards actually becoming something like that.

Yeah deporting hairdressers and fathers of young children who are here legally to sketchy El Salvadorean prisons is crappy af - performative cruelty to be sure. Snatching and deporting students who are here legally on visas or even legal permanent residents - for committing thought crime against foreign governments is on a whole other level.

[Syt]

I'm not, though it's scary watching a department I never liked, think shouldn't exist, and have jokingly (with a hint of seriousness) always referred to as the Gestapo... march towards actually becoming something like that.

Yeah deporting hairdressers and fathers of young children who are here legally to sketchy El Salvadorean prisons is crappy af - performative cruelty to be sure. Snatching and deporting students who are here legally on visas or even legal permanent residents - for committing thought crime against foreign governments is on a whole other level.

The students is IMHO mostly to chill dissent on campuses - i.e. don't show up to protests, don't put your name on any articles.

[Neil]

I'm not, though it's scary watching a department I never liked, think shouldn't exist, and have jokingly (with a hint of seriousness) always referred to as the Gestapo... march towards actually becoming something like that.

Don't believe it should exist as an organization?  What's the argument there?  Wasn't it just putting the Customs Service and the INS under one roof?  Seems like a reasonable move. 

The problem is with the Gestapo tactics and the polarization of the performative immigration debate, not with having people enforce immigration law. 

[Valmy]

I don't really understand the idea behind getting rid of ICE, I mean besides all the horrible things ICE does but that is a result of the fact that Americans seem to enjoy seeing terrible things happen to foreigners not some something institutionally specific to ICE.

But there may be some good reasons to do it and some good alternatives out there. I just don't know. I have long since given up any hope of good immigration reform to make our laws and systems conform with reality and our national interests.

[The Minsky Moment]

No one should be deported to a Salvadoran prison.  Whether they are a house painter with a kids and two dogs, or an MS13 gangbanger with tattoos and a Glock. No one should be deported to any prison, without proper charges and a trial. Deportation is a civil process, the end point cannot be criminal punishment.

If ICE or anyone else thinks it has a criminal in its custody, then CHARGE and PROSECUTE under the CRIMINAL law.  Or deport back to the country of origin.

That is one of the worst aspects about this.  It's natural to point to the most outrageous cases from a messaging POV.  But what gets lost is how this administration's relentless assault on the Constitution is ripping apart its fabric. Once the subject of Salvadoran prison comes up in the context of civil immigration enforcement actions, the conversation should be over before it begins; we don't even get to the characteristics of the individual.

[Valmy]

No one should be deported to a Salvadoran prison.  Whether they are a house painter with a kids and two dogs, or an MS13 gangbanger with tattoos and a Glock. No one should be deported to any prison, without proper charges and a trial. Deportation is a civil process, the end point cannot be criminal punishment.

If ICE or anyone else thinks it has a criminal in its custody, then CHARGE and PROSECUTE under the CRIMINAL law.  Or deport back to the country of origin.

That is one of the worst aspects about this.  It's natural to point to the most outrageous cases from a messaging POV.  But what gets lost is how this administration's relentless assault on the Constitution is ripping apart its fabric. Once the subject of Salvadoran prison comes up in the context of civil immigration enforcement actions, the conversation should be over before it begins; we don't even get to the characteristics of the individual.

Well yes. But this is a political thing. Americans, at least a large percentage of them, are horrible people and enjoy terrible things happening to foreigners. Trump is putting on a big torture show for them. And so long as these psychopaths get out there and vote and cheer this on, the law is in a tough space.

[Zanza]

Tariffs for everything and everyone. Biggest tax increase in American history? Should be more than 500 billion a year (10+% on imports of 3.2 trillion). Of course regressive, so hitting poor and middle income earners harder.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

I wasn't clear in my original post that I was referring to the DHS as a whole, not ICE specifically.  The whole department was formed to deal with brown people terrorism, and I think it's colored most of the agencies in it.  INS wasn't great, either, but ICE has taken it to the next level.