Attack in Nice on July 14th

[Queequeg]

Albanians and Bosniaks would eat pork and drink rakija and crucify Serbian or Greek rebels whenever they got uppity. 

And Serbs and Greeks would do much the same to Albanians and Bosniaks, as well as to each other.  So what's your point?  Islam is a belief system.   Being Scottish isn't a belief system one joins voluntarily by pinching pennies and eating revolting sheep gizzards.  Sufi mystics were heterodox and you'd occasionally find almost pagan beliefs among the various ghulams.

I think it's pertinent to point out that IS attracts the "allegiance" (sometimes ex post) of a significant number of people with no discernible religious background or inclinations and that it advocates conduct contrary to the Quran or any known Sunni sharia school.  At least if you believe that one should understand a phenomenon if one wants to combat it effectively.  As opposed to grind some political axe.

Extreme and violent behavior and violation of dietary restrictions does not always preclude involvement in wars that are framed in a religious context and heterodoxy of warriors of the faith in Islam is not unheard of.

I think it's probably fair that ISIS has broken from traditional Sunni Islam in a way that Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra have not.  But, honestly, so?  Non-Trinitarian Christians came out of the Reformation and we still call them Christians.  Today we have thousands of Christian denomenations that ignorantly call themselves "non-denomenational" and based on interpretations of the Biblical text completely divergent from the 2,000 history of exegesis.    ISIS is comparable.

All the way back to Mohammed and the Khawarij and Almohads and Almoravids and Fatmids and Safavids the trend of a "puritanical desert sect that develops a unique interpretation of the Islamic text expands rapidly by conquest and slavery" has been......the norm. Granted, it hasn't happened as often since the emergence of the House of Saud, thinking of ISIS as uniquely divergent from Islamic history strikes me as bizarre.  The Ummayad Caliphs were frequently perverts and alcoholics. They still conquered the largest empire in history in the name of Islam. 

Also, I just suspect that you're wrong.  I doubt very seriously that the average ISIS fighter eats pork or drinks liquor on a regular basis.  The fact that some Chechen fighters don't know how many times a day they're supposed to make namas does not magically absolve Islam from this horrible shame.

[Jaron]

I was reflecting on everything today and I came to the acceptance that the West will fall. Islam will take over the world and in the future when there is first contact they will be the ones that meet with the aliens.

We always thought it'd be like Star Trek, but it turns out the ambassadors of humanity will be one of the asshole alien races that threw shade at Luke Skywalker in Mos Eisley. We won't be the protagonists afterall.

[Duque de Bragança]

One other thought is how weird is it to attack a Church at a Tuesday mass? I may be generalising but that is literally a service only for nuns and legionaries of Mary

Specially in a Rouen banlieue where there are not many Christians to begin with.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The Muslim council of Britain has a fine sense of priorities :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36900310

[Sheilbh]

One other thought is how weird is it to attack a Church at a Tuesday mass? I may be generalising but that is literally a service only for nuns and legionaries of Mary

Well, it's possible that who the attackers wanted to target.  It's also possible that they can't read a calendar properly and didn't know what day it was.

I'd always assume they'd want as many people for most impact

[Crazy_Ivan80]

  Islam is a belief system. 

It's just as much, if not more, a political ideology.
One without which the world would be a far better place.

[Grallon]

It's just as much, if not more, a political ideology.
One without which the world would be a far better place.

Was it Cameron that said we should simply get used to it?  So get used to it because nothing will be done to prevent it.  This will go on until the Muslim filth has become the majority in Europe - at which point they'll simply get rid of what's left of you people.  Submit or die, with the smug complacency of the Left.



G.

[grumbler]

  Islam is a belief system. 

It's just as much, if not more, a political ideology.
One without which the world would be a far better place.

So, the same as Christianity?  I'd say the world would be a better place without all of the political ideologies based around magical thinking.

[Valmy]

So, the same as Christianity?  I'd say the world would be a better place without all of the political ideologies based around magical thinking.

But then the SPD would have free reign in Germany.

But seriously what is the political ideology of Christianity?

[Razgovory]

  Islam is a belief system. 

It's just as much, if not more, a political ideology.
One without which the world would be a far better place.

So, the same as Christianity?  I'd say the world would be a better place without all of the political ideologies based around magical thinking.

So, all of them?

[Zanza]

But then the SPD would have free reign in Germany.

Germany had conservative parties besides the more Christian parties like Zentrum or CDU/CSU.

But seriously what is the political ideology of Christianity?

Political christianity is defined by Church dogma, which outlines certain policies, such as the Christian duty for social welfare.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_novarum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mater_et_Magistra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadragesimo_anno

Christian morals also play a major role in setting the political ideology of Christian parties, e.g. support for traditional families, opposition against gay rights or abortion.

[grumbler]

But seriously what is the political ideology of Christianity?

I'd say the two key elements are traditional social values (on marriage, abortion, etc) combined with a strong value attached to individual freedoms balanced by individual responsibilities.

[The Minsky Moment]

I think it's probably fair that ISIS has broken from traditional Sunni Islam in a way that Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra have not.  But, honestly, so?  Non-Trinitarian Christians came out of the Reformation and we still call them Christians.  Today we have thousands of Christian denomenations that ignorantly call themselves "non-denomenational" and based on interpretations of the Biblical text completely divergent from the 2,000 history of exegesis.    ISIS is comparable.

I don't think it is.  What distinguishes Daesh from other, Islamic-oriented movements, is not heterodoxy.  They aren't advocating an alternative version of Islam.  They are not neo-Shi'ites or ultra-violent Bahai.  They are simply ignoring the variant of Islam they claim adherence to.  And it appears that they may be doing it because at its core it is not an Islamic movement at all.  It is a heterogeneous collection of "outs" the militarized core of which is secularized ex-Baathists who (much like Saddam) view Islam as nothing more than an convenient propaganda tool. 

Does this matter?  One could argue that it doesn't and that their actions speak for themselves.  But to the extent people think it does matter that we identify and understand the enemy and "tell it as it is" then yes such distinctions are pertinent.

All the way back to Mohammed and the Khawarij and Almohads and Almoravids and Fatmids and Safavids the trend of a "puritanical desert sect that develops a unique interpretation of the Islamic text expands rapidly by conquest and slavery" has been......the norm.

I don't know what this means.  Muhammed wasn't "puritanical" nor were most of the movements to the extent I am familiar.  The Almoravids and Alhomads were garden variety Sunnis in terms of doctrine.  The Fatimids were typical Shi'a as were the Safavids by the time they rose to power.  And virtually every new kingdom and empire for thousands of years rose through conquest and slavery, except in medieval western Europe where it was enserfment rather than slavery. 

I doubt very seriously that the average ISIS fighter eats pork or drinks liquor on a regular basis. 

I don't eat pork either.  That's not the point.  The point is that the eagerness with which the organization embraces people who obviously have no religious commitment whatsoever is symptomatic - what really defines identity is the willingness to engage in violence which is the end in itself. 

[CountDeMoney]

Did you know the first night of Channunchucks is on Christmas Eve this year?

[derspiess]

How dare they?