Jesus' Wife?

[Razgovory]

The trinity is also a rather silly concept, at least as perverted by Catholics.

The original Jewish and then Judeo-christian/gnostic mysticism indeed had three divine beings/aspects, but they were the male (the father), the female (the mother, or Sophia) and the synthesis of the male and female (the "son" - but the son was then expected to "mate" with another opposite principle, creating another triad and so on, in a system that was not unlike that of the Heglian thesis-antithesis-synthesis triad).

Catholics could not accept that (if anything, because it put the male and female principle on equal footing) so they came up with the sily Holy Ghost that doesn't do shit.

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

[alfred russel]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

[Razgovory]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

Not for the "original Jews".

[alfred russel]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

Not for the "original Jews".

Ah, wasnt' thinking in those terms, but then neither was marty. Don't know much about jewish mysticism (what Marty was talking about), but if you can plausibly date it after the start of the hellenistic period, the same thing holds true.

[The Minsky Moment]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

Aramaic.  Greek mostly found in the Hellenistic cities. 

[Martinus]

Ok I misspoke about the Jewish mystics - I meant the qaballists, but these appeared much later. However, neither the original Jewish mystics had any concept of Trinity - it would have been anathema to them.

This is the one early "Catholics" took from other Middle-eastern and Greek mystic schools but changed it from a triad into a hierarchy.

[Malthus]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

Only the pretentious urbanite types - the Jewish Languishites as it were  - would have spoken or written Greek at the time of Jesus; the rest, Aramaic (with Hebrew as mainly a liturgical language).

[Valmy]

Man a first century greek language Languish full of urban Jews would have been fabulous.

[Malthus]

Man a first century greek language Languish full of urban Jews would have been fabulous.

I dunno, you will have to ask Grumbler if it was really fabulous. 

[alfred russel]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

Only the pretentious urbanite types - the Jewish Languishites as it were  - would have spoken or written Greek at the time of Jesus; the rest, Aramaic (with Hebrew as mainly a liturgical language).

You guys would know better than me, but it seems the apostles had no problems evangelizing in Anatolia and Greece - presumably at least some of them could speak greek. And with the early texts written in Greek, it seems at the least those pretentious urban types may have been in on the ground floor.

[Malthus]

Why would the original Jews be using Greek words?

Greek was the lingua franca of that portion of the Roman Empire, and the most relevant written language.

Only the pretentious urbanite types - the Jewish Languishites as it were  - would have spoken or written Greek at the time of Jesus; the rest, Aramaic (with Hebrew as mainly a liturgical language).

You guys would know better than me, but it seems the apostles had no problems evangelizing in Anatolia and Greece - presumably at least some of them could speak greek. And with the early texts written in Greek, it seems at the least those pretentious urban types may have been in on the ground floor.

Aramaic was the daily language in what is now Israel; however, Jews were found all over the place, and the Jews of places like Alexandria or what is now Turkey spoke and wrote Greek (as would pretentious urban types in what is now Israel).

It is thought by some that the NT was originally written in Aramaic and then translated into Greek. However, the majority view is that much of it at least was written following the writings of Paul "of Tarsus", a diaspora Jew, and aimed at Paul's communities (mainly diaspora communities & converts), that it was originally written in Greek.

[Valmy]

There is one thing that Paul is generally not accused of: declaring the equality of men and women. Or was he the 'Catholic Church' in this case?

[Malthus]

There is one thing that Paul is generally not accused of: declaring the equality of men and women.

Indeed. He's got a few screws loose on that subject. 

I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.

1 Corinthians 11

[alfred russel]

Seems to be a relevant passage for the burkini debate.

[The Minsky Moment]

On the Greek thing - Aramaic become the lingua franca of much of the Achaemenid Empire and it stuck for a very long time.  When the Greeks conquered the Middle East, they established Greek city-states, like Seleucia and Antioch.  These were Greek-speaking, Hellenistic cities.  But long, pre-existing cities like Jerusalem or Schehem would have remained predominantly Aramaic speaking, although the elite likely learned Greek.  Josephus suggests that Greek speaking was uncommon and discouraged among Palestinian Jews, and that his own Greek speaking abilities were due to great effort he made.  Being Josephus, one can't take everything he says at 100% face value, but it supports the notion that outside of an urban elite or those living in Greek cities, few Palestinian Jews spoke Greek with much fluency.

Greek speakers would have been thin on the ground in the Galillean villages where Jesus and the Apostles preached, and it is unlikely they spoke much Greek. Prior to Paul and the shift in emphasis on a mission to gentiles, there would not have been much cause to preach in Greek.   It does appear that Paul spoke Greek, though not as a first language.  Mark - the first Gospel - is composed in Greek but the styling is oft criticized, possibly indicating that it was not the writer's first language either.