Jesus' Wife?

[dps]

Guys, I don't know what we will decide regarding Valmy's christian status, but can we all agree now, that whatever we conclude, we will burn Valmy at the stake?

It would help if he'd answer my question about the Apostles' Creed.  I'd guess that he'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure.

[Valmy]

Guys, I don't know what we will decide regarding Valmy's christian status, but can we all agree now, that whatever we conclude, we will burn Valmy at the stake?

It would help if he'd answer my question about the Apostles' Creed.  I'd guess that he'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure.

I would guess so as well

What your question about the Apostle's Creed?

[alfred russel]

Guys, I don't know what we will decide regarding Valmy's christian status, but can we all agree now, that whatever we conclude, we will burn Valmy at the stake?

It would help if he'd answer my question about the Apostles' Creed.  I'd guess that he'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure.

No need to get an answer. If he is a true christian that believes the apostles creed, the flames will not injure him when we set him on fire. 

[Sheilbh]

Sound logic

[dps]

Guys, I don't know what we will decide regarding Valmy's christian status, but can we all agree now, that whatever we conclude, we will burn Valmy at the stake?

It would help if he'd answer my question about the Apostles' Creed.  I'd guess that he'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure.

I would guess so as well

What your question about the Apostle's Creed?

Just whether you would ascribe to the beliefs it professes.

Well, I had also asked in another thread several years ago (and never got an answer) if anyone knew if Mormons ascribed to it, but that wasn't directed to you personally.

[crazy canuck]

I am well aware. But I think the main point is that Constantine did not dictate nor did he seem to have a strong opinion on the specifics of Orthodoxy.

Yeah, that is why I said he had no dog in the fight, he just wanted the fight to end. 

Sometimes I think Languish has taught you to just reflexively disagree 

[crazy canuck]

Guys, I don't know what we will decide regarding Valmy's christian status, but can we all agree now, that whatever we conclude, we will burn Valmy at the stake?

It would help if he'd answer my question about the Apostles' Creed.  I'd guess that he'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure.

No need to get an answer. If he is a true christian that believes the apostles creed, the flames will not injure him when we set him on fire. 

Wait a minute, Shadrack, Mishack and Abednigo (sp?) didnt need any apostles creed to withstand the flames. 

[alfred russel]

Guys, I don't know what we will decide regarding Valmy's christian status, but can we all agree now, that whatever we conclude, we will burn Valmy at the stake?

It would help if he'd answer my question about the Apostles' Creed.  I'd guess that he'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure.

No need to get an answer. If he is a true christian that believes the apostles creed, the flames will not injure him when we set him on fire. 

Wait a minute, Shadrack, Mishack and Abednigo (sp?) didnt need any apostles creed to withstand the flames. 

That was old testament, under the old covenant, before jesus sealed a new covenant. That was the point immunity from fire executions transferred from jews to christians. No christian has ever been harmed through an execution by burning. No true christian, I should say.

[Valmy]

Yeah, that is why I said he had no dog in the fight, he just wanted the fight to end. 

Sure. But what does that have to do with how I was over simplifying in a Brown-type fashion? That seems to support what I said originally.

Sometimes I think Languish has taught you to just reflexively disagree 

Huh? You came after me. I was talking to Tim and you just chimed in to tell me I was mistaken in some way. I explained the reasons for my position. I simply did not understand how you were disagreeing with me or what the issue was with my position.

And if you could stop putting in a patronizing insult in every post that would be great.

[garbon]

He can't.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, that is why I said he had no dog in the fight, he just wanted the fight to end. 

Sure. But what does that have to do with how I was over simplifying in a Brown-type fashion? That seems to support what I said originally.

Sometimes I think Languish has taught you to just reflexively disagree 

Huh? You came after me. I was talking to Tim and you just chimed in to tell me I was mistaken in some way. I explained the reasons for my position. I simply did not understand how you were disagreeing with me or what the issue was with my position.

And if you could stop putting in a patronizing insult in every post that would be great.

You said:

yet sometimes I will hear about how Constantine changed Christianity and made it evil or something. He barely had anything to do with it. I blame Dan Brown.

Constantine did change Christianity.  He set the precedent for a calling a council to resolve theological disputes.  He set the precedent for the emperor to interfere with theological matters.  He did end up supporting one side over the other.  True he may not have thought deeply about theological issues.  But he did want one to win over the other.  It is a bit naive the think that involving the power of the state "barely had anything to do" with what happened.  I would go so far as to say it is a simplification worthy of a Dan Brown novel. 

As for being patronizing, I calls them as I see them.  It doesnt help you case that our recent drama queen was quick to chime in

[Martinus]

None of this discussion would have happened if Valmy simply admitted he is a heathen heretic and beyond the pale of the human society.

[Sheilbh]

The problem is, of course, who should define what should be "enforced".  The people wishing to create the enforceable definition in this thread have adopted the Catholic orthodox view.  The problem with that is, despite Sheilbh's protestations to the contrary, that view was never actually a universal view of all Christians at any point in history including our modern era.  It may have been the dominant view at times but that really just goes to the point Jacob has been trying to make throughout this thread.

Psh

All I'm saying is I'm not a fan of this lovey-dovey idea of Christianity. Christ is important - and clearly divine - but the radical genius of Christianity is Pau. He's basically God's Lenin. There's none of this 'believe what you want' nonsense that saw a million other religious movements effervesce. Paul goes and builds the party. He sets up sects all around the place. He has cadres and is building a radical, Middle Eastern splinter group that survives against violent state opposition that he is in constant communication with. It's spiritual centralism.

But that persecution and risk of betrayal is why whether you're inside or outside mattered; whether it's the codes and symbols used to identify the real Christians or Cyprian's mediating position in the rows over apostates - extra ecclesiam nulla salus - and incidentally my understanding is that that argument was settled by a council and reflected existing precedent. Yeah Constantine matters and wants to unify the church around one coherent theology, but I actually think those schisms reflect the security of Christianity at that point. The church can worry about the will, nature, etc of Christ and his role in the Trinity because they don't have to worry about martyrdom. It isn't that they agreed, or disagreed, before its that that survival of this church, community, party mattered more before Constantine.

[Valmy]

All I'm saying is I'm not a fan of this lovey-dovey idea of Christianity.

I am well aware.

None of this discussion would have happened if Valmy simply admitted he is a heathen heretic and beyond the pale of the human society.

Huh...that makes me sound so dangerous. Maybe I will.

[alfred russel]

All I'm saying is I'm not a fan of this lovey-dovey idea of Christianity. Christ is important - and clearly divine - but the radical genius of Christianity is Pau. He's basically God's Lenin.

I love this analogy.

Jesus is Marx,
Paul is Lenin,
There are many contenders for the role of Stalin  ,
Benedict is Brezhnev,
Francis is Gorbachev?