Mass killing in Orlando gay nightclub

[11B4V]

Well, you convinced me - Muslims cannot assimilate or coexist with a liberal democracy, no matter how many years they live here.

John Wayne Gacy had 33 gay murder victims in one location, you know.  Not a Muslim.

Wow. 

The suspect's father has spoken out to the media, saying his son was anti-gay and he doesn't believe the attack was motivated by religion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-shooting-suspected-gunman-omar-mateen/

How misguided

[11B4V]

Well, you convinced me - Muslims cannot assimilate or coexist with a liberal democracy, no matter how many years they live here.

John Wayne Gacy had 33 gay murder victims in one location, you know.  Not a Muslim.

Wow. 

The suspect's father has spoken out to the media, saying his son was anti-gay and he doesn't believe the attack was motivated by religion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-shooting-suspected-gunman-omar-mateen/

How many other mass shootings in gay clubs were perpetrated to date by homophobes? I mean, given the widespread access to guns in the US and homophobia among the racist, right wing rednecks and the like, there must be virtually dozens of cases.

I would label this a Terror attack, not just a vanilla run of the mill US mass shooting.

[Martinus]

So, to answer garbon's question about what we should do - making sure people like this are not able to walk freely in our societies would be a good start.

Imprisonment for thought crime? You just become absurd now.

Doesn't Germany punish certain forms of speech with imprisonment? Like Holocaust-denial?

[Phillip V]

Omar Mateen called 911 just before the shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-shooting-emergency-services-respond-reports-gunman-n590446

[Martinus]

Well, you convinced me - Muslims cannot assimilate or coexist with a liberal democracy, no matter how many years they live here.

John Wayne Gacy had 33 gay murder victims in one location, you know.  Not a Muslim.

Wow. 

The suspect's father has spoken out to the media, saying his son was anti-gay and he doesn't believe the attack was motivated by religion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-shooting-suspected-gunman-omar-mateen/

How many other mass shootings in gay clubs were perpetrated to date by homophobes? I mean, given the widespread access to guns in the US and homophobia among the racist, right wing rednecks and the like, there must be virtually dozens of cases.

I would label this a Terror attack, not just a vanilla run of the mill US mass shooting.

CdM is saying this is no different than John Wayne Gacy's murders. I am trying to engage him.

[LaCroix]

I see nothing wrong in banning a poster who serves as nothing but a detriment to our forum. Apparently our mods feel the same if the amount of bans he's been given are any indication.

but is there evidence he's a detriment to the forum? a few people having negative feelings over his posts isn't a detriment to the forum. if you mean the allegations that he drove some people off the forum, those can't really be relied on accurately unless a person actually said, "I'm quitting the forum and never returning because of marti." if that were the case with one or a handful of posters, it hasn't happened in years, and IIRC marti isn't the only person who allegedly drove someone to quit the forum.

[11B4V]

Well, you convinced me - Muslims cannot assimilate or coexist with a liberal democracy, no matter how many years they live here.

John Wayne Gacy had 33 gay murder victims in one location, you know.  Not a Muslim.

Wow. 

The suspect's father has spoken out to the media, saying his son was anti-gay and he doesn't believe the attack was motivated by religion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-shooting-suspected-gunman-omar-mateen/

How many other mass shootings in gay clubs were perpetrated to date by homophobes? I mean, given the widespread access to guns in the US and homophobia among the racist, right wing rednecks and the like, there must be virtually dozens of cases.

I would label this a Terror attack, not just a vanilla run of the mill US mass shooting.

CdM is saying this is no different than John Wayne Gacy's murders. I am trying to engage him.

I didn't take that away from his post. You missed his point. WHOOOOOOSH.

[Legbiter]

Omar Mateen called 911 just before the shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-shooting-emergency-services-respond-reports-gunman-n590446

[garbon]

I see nothing wrong in banning a poster who serves as nothing but a detriment to our forum. Apparently our mods feel the same if the amount of bans he's been given are any indication.

but is there evidence he's a detriment to the forum? a few people having negative feelings over his posts isn't a detriment to the forum. if you mean the allegations that he drove some people off the forum, those can't really be relied on accurately unless a person actually said, "I'm quitting the forum and never returning because of marti." if that were the case with one or a handful of posters, it hasn't happened in years, and IIRC marti isn't the only person who allegedly drove someone to quit the forum.

Yeah, I think there is enough evidence of posters who stand by my statement or something to similar effect. I'm not talking about people he ran, but just people who post currently who would describe his presence as wholly unpleasant.

Enough about him though, in this thread.

[11B4V]

I see nothing wrong in banning a poster who serves as nothing but a detriment to our forum. Apparently our mods feel the same if the amount of bans he's been given are any indication.

but is there evidence he's a detriment to the forum? a few people having negative feelings over his posts isn't a detriment to the forum. if you mean the allegations that he drove some people off the forum, those can't really be relied on accurately unless a person actually said, "I'm quitting the forum and never returning because of marti." if that were the case with one or a handful of posters, it hasn't happened in years, and IIRC marti isn't the only person who allegedly drove someone to quit the forum.

Eh, he doesn't bother me.

[CountDeMoney]

Martinus has already gone Throttle Up and jettisoned his boosters, and is now well into the second stage on his way into orbit beyond the Milosphere.

I expect his douchebagginess will reach trajectory optimization in, oh, less than an hour, at which point I'll be giving him the rest of the day off.  Mission Control out.


IN SPACE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SHRILL

[Zanza]

So, to answer garbon's question about what we should do - making sure people like this are not able to walk freely in our societies would be a good start.

Imprisonment for thought crime? You just become absurd now.

Doesn't Germany punish certain forms of speech with imprisonment? Like Holocaust-denial?

The protected legal object there is public peace, not the truth about the holocaust. You can think that the Holocaust never happened, but you are not allowed to utter those thoughts in a way that disturbs public peace or incites hatred. So the crime is not about the thought, but about actions deriving from that thought. As a lawyer, you can surely appreciate the difference.

That said - and I have said that repeatedly - I prefer the American approach to free speech.

Not sure what the relevance to your proposal of pre-emptive detention is though.

[The Brain]

Omar Mateen called 911 just before the shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/orlando-nightclub-shooting-emergency-services-respond-reports-gunman-n590446

Maybe he fell and landed on his phone?

[11B4V]

This type of stuff will drive idiots to vote for Trump though.

He will latch on to this and. politicize this like no other. I hope Obama calls this a Terror attack that will take wind out of his sails. He'll still push his line on accepting Muslim refugees and islamophobia on folks that are still sitting on the fence.

[CountDeMoney]

Omar Mateen called 911 just before the shooting and pledged allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

I bet al-Baghdadi didn't even know who the hell he was.