Postmodernism is destroying our brains, culture and civilization

[Monoriu]

I've watched Neon Genesis Evangelion.  I like the characters and parts of the story, and agree that it is a masterpiece.  But I hate the ending and don't really get the symbolism.  If that represents postmodernism, then I am probably destined to be its enemy

That really wasn't related to post-modernism; I was trying to understand what you meant by "Abstract" in terms of anime.  The ending of Neon Genesis Evangelion is ambiguous; it's up to you to determine what really happened and what it means.  The same is true in Serial Experiments Lain.  Is that what you mean by "Abstract"?

I think my problem with Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't just because of the inconclusive ending (even though they did it to me twice, the TV version and the movie version).  But also because so many things are left unexplained.  What are Angels?  What's an "impact"?  What are "Adam and Eve"?  Why are the Angels invading the Tokyo Fortress?  Most shows don't provide 100% information and some things are left for the audience to imagine.  But I think Neon Genesis Evangelion over did it. 

The ending.  It isn't just an "inconclusive" ending.  As far as the TV version is concerned, the "ending" is a two episode slide show that is obviously a result of budget problems.  They ran out of money.  The disconnect with the rest of the show was also great.  Imagine the final 30 minutes of LoTR being a slide show, undoing everything that happened in the first 2.5 movies, declaring that all the problems happened in Frodo's head and that he could solve all Middle Earth's problems if only he could imagine a better ending.  I couldn't care less if you call it modernist, postmodernist, premodernist or Jaronist.  That's cheap, lazy and spitting on the audience. 

The End of Evangelion movie.  That's far better in terms of production values.  When I watched the second half of the movie, the only words that appeared in my head were "WTH am I watching?"  I had no idea what was going on, why things happened, and what the characters were doing. 

That's what I meant by abstract.  Probably

[The Larch]

What I read about the ending of Evangelion back in the day was that the writer of the show had some kind of psychiatric issues and that he decided to stop taking his medication when he was writing the final episodes. I don't know if it's true but it fits with the truly bonkers stuff shown in them. 

[Monoriu]

What I read about the ending of Evangelion back in the day was that the writer of the show had some kind of psychiatric issues and that he decided to stop taking his medication when he was writing the final episodes. I don't know if it's true but it fits with the truly bonkers stuff shown in them. 

The Rebuild of Evangelion, essentially a retelling of the story, is truly depressing.  I understand what is going on this time, but the story is still sad on an epic scale. 

[celedhring]

I actually haven't seen the ending of Evangelion 

When it came out in Spain, we had this friend in the gang who would get the tapes and watch it first before lending them to the rest of us, and when he got to the ending he was so angry that he told us not to watch it. So we didn't. 

[Eddie Teach]

What are Angels?   What are "Adam and Eve"? 

Are you familiar with those outside the context of the show?

[Monoriu]

I actually haven't seen the ending of Evangelion 

When it came out in Spain, we had this friend in the gang who would get the tapes and watch it first before lending them to the rest of us, and when he got to the ending he was so angry that he told us not to watch it. So we didn't. 

Probably a smart move.  The ending (of the TV version) adds nothing to the story and basically undoes the entire story. 

The End of Evangelion movie is worth seeing.  But like I said, I didn't find closure at all.  It is a bunch of superbly done action sequences and character development plus another bunch of totally bizarre stuff that I consider impossible to understand. 

I think a big part of why they do the Rebuild movies, besides the obvious goal of milking the franchise, is to try a third time to get some closure.  But it seems the final Rebuild movie is now in development hell, so we probably won't get that

[Monoriu]

What are Angels?   What are "Adam and Eve"? 

Are you familiar with those outside the context of the show?

Yes.  My old school is a Christian school.  That's part of the problem actually.  Angels, Adam and Eve as seen in the Evangelion universe is completely different from the usual Christian understanding

[Savonarola]

I think my problem with Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't just because of the inconclusive ending (even though they did it to me twice, the TV version and the movie version).  But also because so many things are left unexplained.  What are Angels?  What's an "impact"?  What are "Adam and Eve"?  Why are the Angels invading the Tokyo Fortress?  Most shows don't provide 100% information and some things are left for the audience to imagine.  But I think Neon Genesis Evangelion over did it. 

The ending.  It isn't just an "inconclusive" ending.  As far as the TV version is concerned, the "ending" is a two episode slide show that is obviously a result of budget problems.  They ran out of money.  The disconnect with the rest of the show was also great.  Imagine the final 30 minutes of LoTR being a slide show, undoing everything that happened in the first 2.5 movies, declaring that all the problems happened in Frodo's head and that he could solve all Middle Earth's problems if only he could imagine a better ending.  I couldn't care less if you call it modernist, postmodernist, premodernist or Jaronist.  That's cheap, lazy and spitting on the audience. 

The End of Evangelion movie.  That's far better in terms of production values.  When I watched the second half of the movie, the only words that appeared in my head were "WTH am I watching?"  I had no idea what was going on, why things happened, and what the characters were doing. 

That's what I meant by abstract.  Probably

Heh, I didn't realize the ending of Evangelion was due to budget problems; that explains a lot.

I agree that there is simply too much left unexplained in Evangelion for the viewer to make sense of it.  There seems to be an enormous amount of background information that's missing.

It's been a long time since I've seen the series; but I took the ending to mean that they had reached something akin to the singularity.  We see the perfect world that our protagonist imagines; presumably his father lives in one where his dead wife is still alive and something similar for everyone else.  The series didn't build up to this conclusion, and even if it had it would still be problematic; it's too happy an ending.

That being said I did enjoy Evangelion; it had strong characters, mystery and giant robots.  What more could you ask for? (well, besides an ending that made sense...)

[Agelastus]

It really helps in understanding Evangelion to have read the so-called "Red Cross Book" that was sold in Japanese theatres to viewers of "End of Evanglion". There should still be translations online, I believe.

Heh, I didn't realize the ending of Evangelion was due to budget problems; that explains a lot.

If I recall what I've read correctly they pissed their sponsors off around episode 19 or 20 or so; episodes 21-24 suffered a distinct drop in animation quality and then basically, as stated, they ran out of money for episodes 25 and 26.

Gainax almost died financially before Evangelion was even made, despite producing such fine work as "Gunbuster". Then Evangelion nearly killed the company. Then Evangelion took off, the money rolled in, and Gainax committed tax fraud. Which again nearly killed the company...

Gainax's history is interesting for more than just the eponymous "Bounce".

Episodes 21-24 were revisited with improved animation and extra footage a few years ago; I believe the DVD copy of Evangelion I have on my shelf is this remastered/recreated version.

I agree that there is simply too much left unexplained in Evangelion for the viewer to make sense of it.  There seems to be an enormous amount of background information that's missing.

It's been a long time since I've seen the series; but I took the ending to mean that they had reached something akin to the singularity.  We see the perfect world that our protagonist imagines; presumably his father lives in one where his dead wife is still alive and something similar for everyone else.  The series didn't build up to this conclusion, and even if it had it would still be problematic; it's too happy an ending.

That being said I did enjoy Evangelion; it had strong characters, mystery and giant robots.  What more could you ask for? (well, besides an ending that made sense...)

First time I saw the TV ending I thought "everybody died"; the second time I watched it I thought that "everybody lived" (or had the chance to, anyway); the third time I watched it I wasn't sure which interpretation was correct.

I must admit I enjoyed the TV series ending more than the movie, though; I found "End of Evangelion"'s first part a tad brutal in places for my tastes, and didn't think the philosophising in the second part was as effective as the TV series' finale.

And then there's the final scene of the movie...

[Monoriu]

And then there's the final scene of the movie...

I read somewhere that the director asked Shinji's voice actress to choke the other actress in real life for maximum effect

[garbon]

I hadn't thought this thread could get worse. Clearly I lacked imagination.

[Monoriu]

I hadn't thought this thread could get worse. Clearly I lacked imagination.

I think I now have a slightly better idea of what postmodernism is.  Prior to this thread I had no idea.  Now I know that postmodernism is like the most awful aspects of Neon Genesis Evangelion

[garbon]

So you've learned nothing real then.

[jimmy olsen]

I hadn't thought this thread could get worse. Clearly I lacked imagination.

I think I now have a slightly better idea of what postmodernism is.  Prior to this thread I had no idea.  Now I know that postmodernism is like the most awful aspects of Neon Genesis Evangelion

You went to a Canadian university and didn't learn what postmodernism is?

[Monoriu]

You went to a Canadian university and didn't learn what postmodernism is?

Huh?  I went to study accounting and finance.  Why should business courses teach postmodernism?