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What's your first answer to this problem?

Started by Martinus, April 27, 2016, 12:49:59 PM

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What's your first answer to this problem?

[spoiler]Answer A[/spoiler]
17 (44.7%)
[spoiler]Answer B[/spoiler]
15 (39.5%)
Other?
6 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 38

CountDeMoney


grumbler

Quote from: Maximus on April 28, 2016, 01:45:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Surely the plus sign should be replaced with another symbol.
It's using a different grammar. The question is, what is the grammar that makes it correct. It's less a math problem and more a linguistics problem, although you can solve it mathematically as I suspect frunk did.

And as he said, there are probably an infinite number of grammars that would fit, including ones where the numerals have different values.

It's not a different grammar (unless grammar means something different in Canadian English); it is using an existing language incorrectly.  If I were to say "Seedy sucks donkey dicks" and Seedy got offended, I couldn't argue that I was just using a different "grammar" in which "sucks" means "likes" and "donkey dicks" means "cats."

Once one accepts that the formulas are wrong, though, you are correct that there are an infinite number of ways in which it could be wrong.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

merithyn

Quote from: grumbler on April 29, 2016, 10:02:42 AM
Quote from: Maximus on April 28, 2016, 01:45:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Surely the plus sign should be replaced with another symbol.
It's using a different grammar. The question is, what is the grammar that makes it correct. It's less a math problem and more a linguistics problem, although you can solve it mathematically as I suspect frunk did.

And as he said, there are probably an infinite number of grammars that would fit, including ones where the numerals have different values.

It's not a different grammar (unless grammar means something different in Canadian English); it is using an existing language incorrectly.  If I were to say "Seedy sucks donkey dicks" and Seedy got offended, I couldn't argue that I was just using a different "grammar" in which "sucks" means "likes" and "donkey dicks" means "cats."

Once one accepts that the formulas are wrong, though, you are correct that there are an infinite number of ways in which it could be wrong.

It can mean something different than your understanding, yes. See: Definition 4.

QuoteFull Definition of grammar
1
a :  the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence
b :  a study of what is to be preferred and what avoided in inflection and syntax
2
a :  the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language
b :  a system of rules that defines the grammatical structure of a language
3
a :  a grammar textbook
b :  speech or writing evaluated according to its conformity to grammatical rules
4
:  the principles or rules of an art, science, or technique <a grammar of the theater>; also : a set of such principles or rules
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

crazy canuck

Quote from: grumbler on April 29, 2016, 10:02:42 AM
Quote from: Maximus on April 28, 2016, 01:45:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2016, 12:55:05 PM
Surely the plus sign should be replaced with another symbol.
It's using a different grammar. The question is, what is the grammar that makes it correct. It's less a math problem and more a linguistics problem, although you can solve it mathematically as I suspect frunk did.

And as he said, there are probably an infinite number of grammars that would fit, including ones where the numerals have different values.

It's not a different grammar (unless grammar means something different in Canadian English); it is using an existing language incorrectly.  If I were to say "Seedy sucks donkey dicks" and Seedy got offended, I couldn't argue that I was just using a different "grammar" in which "sucks" means "likes" and "donkey dicks" means "cats."

Once one accepts that the formulas are wrong, though, you are correct that there are an infinite number of ways in which it could be wrong.

That is a pretty narrow use of the word grammar to simply make two insults in one post ;)

grumbler

Quote from: merithyn on April 29, 2016, 10:26:18 AM
It can mean something different than your understanding, yes. See: Definition 4.

QuoteFull Definition of grammar
1
a :  the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence
b :  a study of what is to be preferred and what avoided in inflection and syntax
2
a :  the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language
b :  a system of rules that defines the grammatical structure of a language
3
a :  a grammar textbook
b :  speech or writing evaluated according to its conformity to grammatical rules
4
:  the principles or rules of an art, science, or technique <a grammar of the theater>; also : a set of such principles or rules

I don't see how definition 4 applies, but acknowledge that Canadian English isn't always the same as American English.  Thus, your understanding may include "grammar" to mean for "incorrect usage" (as in "the principals or rules of the art of incorrect usage, I suppose) while mine does not.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: crazy canuck on April 29, 2016, 10:33:37 AM
That is a pretty narrow use of the word grammar to simply make two insults in one post ;)

Congrats on seeing insults even where not present?  :huh:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

crazy canuck

Quote from: grumbler on April 29, 2016, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 29, 2016, 10:33:37 AM
That is a pretty narrow use of the word grammar to simply make two insults in one post ;)

Congrats on seeing insults even where not present?  :huh:

I guess you are so used to be an abrasive jerk that it doesn't register for you anymore   :console:

derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

merithyn

Quote from: grumbler on April 29, 2016, 10:55:20 AM
Quote from: merithyn on April 29, 2016, 10:26:18 AM
It can mean something different than your understanding, yes. See: Definition 4.

QuoteFull Definition of grammar
1
a :  the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence
b :  a study of what is to be preferred and what avoided in inflection and syntax
2
a :  the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language
b :  a system of rules that defines the grammatical structure of a language
3
a :  a grammar textbook
b :  speech or writing evaluated according to its conformity to grammatical rules
4
:  the principles or rules of an art, science, or technique <a grammar of the theater>; also : a set of such principles or rules

I don't see how definition 4 applies, but acknowledge that Canadian English isn't always the same as American English.  Thus, your understanding may include "grammar" to mean for "incorrect usage" (as in "the principals or rules of the art of incorrect usage, I suppose) while mine does not.

I'd forgotten how limited your scope is with the English Language. :) Never mind then.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Valmy

Quote from: derspiess on April 29, 2016, 11:29:07 AM
Languish has not yet perished.

So long as we still live.

What the alien force has taken from us,

We shall retrieve with a sabre.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Maximus

Quote from: grumbler on April 29, 2016, 10:02:42 AM
It's not a different grammar (unless grammar means something different in Canadian English); it is using an existing language incorrectly.  If I were to say "Seedy sucks donkey dicks" and Seedy got offended, I couldn't argue that I was just using a different "grammar" in which "sucks" means "likes" and "donkey dicks" means "cats."
Sure you could. Grammar is a technical term: in linguistics as I mentioned.

As a non-linguist I can excuse your ignorance; as an academic I can not excuse your professing that ignorance to be "truth".

11B4V

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

grumbler

Quote from: crazy canuck on April 29, 2016, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 29, 2016, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 29, 2016, 10:33:37 AM
That is a pretty narrow use of the word grammar to simply make two insults in one post ;)

Congrats on seeing insults even where not present?  :huh:

I guess you are so used to be an abrasive jerk that it doesn't register for you anymore   :console:

And you are moaning that I am the one who is being insulting?  :lmfao:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Maximus on April 29, 2016, 12:11:37 PM
Sure you could. Grammar is a technical term: in linguistics as I mentioned.

As a non-linguist I can excuse your ignorance; as an academic I can not excuse your professing that ignorance to be "truth".

Grammar has a specific meaning in linguistics; it isn't a catch-all word that means whatever you want it to mean.

As a linguist, I can excuse your non-linguist misunderstanding of the term "grammar" (after all, you have probably seen a poster on the internet correct another poster's punctuation and seen them called "grammar police").  As an academic, I have to reject your misappropriation of the term "grammar" to describe a change in word meaning.  Grammar involves syntax and morphology, not definitions.  As a mathematician, I must reject your contention that there is a "grammar" that allows 2+5 to equal 12 in a base ten numbering system.  As a Languish poster, I am not surprised that you want to double down on your mistake.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Martinus

In hindsight, this being Languish, I guess I should have included another poll option "Depends on what the meaning of 'is' is".  :lol: