Man removed from UK flight over 'prayer' message on phone

[garbon]

Btw, garbon, would your take on this change if, rather than this being found out by a "busybody looking over a shoulder", the passenger wore a badge or otherwise announced to fellow travellers that he is a member of the "ISI men" prayer group?

Wore a badge? As in a badge that said 'ISI men'? Yes, I would find it very troubling/sad if people thought he was a terrorist because he wore a badge.

If he announced on the flight that he was part of 'ISI men', I think that would be different as normally passengers who are not mentally impaired...well they typically don't make announcements on planes.

[garbon]

I hope SJWs take on those horrible busybodies who report people leaving their luggage unattended at airports next.

Do we actually have reports that such has actually prevented an attack? I recall the analysis on New York's "If you see something, say something" policy was that it has actually just wasted a whole of time and resources with little positive effect.

I am not talking about there being evidence of this preventing attack - but that's not the question. The question is whether the people in the scenario have acted reasonably.

And as I think I've made clear, I don't think they did act reasonably...and by they, I mean the initial busybody - the pilot who refused to let the passenger back on after security cleared him (although perhaps there is more there than story lets on given that we later see that there were passengers who refused to stay on the plane so perhaps he just felt it would be too disruptive to keep the innocent man on board) and then the those same passengers mentioned in my parenthetical.

[Berkut]

THe only story here is "Journalists exaggerate and lie to create news, and suckers buy it hook, line, and sinker".

[Zanza]

They are delayed, mechanical problems, they lose my luggage, my ticket is over-booked, etc., etc. So you are wrong - I get inconvencied when travelling with the exact same practical effect as this guy all the time.

Distingushing between issues related and unrelated to a person is relevant in alleged discrimination cases like this. None of the reasons you enumerated is related to you personally, whereas the person in this story was offboarded because of issues related to his person.

[Berkut]

They are delayed, mechanical problems, they lose my luggage, my ticket is over-booked, etc., etc. So you are wrong - I get inconvencied when travelling with the exact same practical effect as this guy all the time.

Distingushing between issues related and unrelated to a person is relevant in alleged discrimination cases like this. None of the reasons you enumerated is related to you personally, whereas the person in this story was offboarded because of issues related to his person.

But garbon's point was that we should feel terrible about the horrible experience he went through.

He was a victim of a bunch of circumstances beyond his control where he got screwed by the system. We all get screwed by the system all the time, and sometimes that means we miss a flight, and some people are douchebags. Sometimes we miss a flight *because* some people are douchebags.

There is no element of that story *that actually resulted in him getting removed from the flight* that made me think "THAT is a problem that we need to change the system to make sure doesn't happen again!"

And more to the point, the entire article is basically a lie - the issue was not about him praying, but about someone mistakenly thinking he had something on his phone that suggested he had something to do with ISIS.

It is just an unfortunate "shit happens" kind of thing. I wish less shit happened, and I even wish in his particular case that this paricular shit did not happen.

But do I want to take away a pilots power to refuse to allow someone they are not sure about on their plane? No.

Do I want to tell security personnel to ignore when dumbasses tell them something like "Hey, I saw the guy next to me texting to someone who looked like they might be terrorists?" No.

Do I want to tell journalists to stop fucking ignoring the obvious driving elements in a story in favor of sensational headlines that will convince people to click on their story? Yes.

[Razgovory]

They are delayed, mechanical problems, they lose my luggage, my ticket is over-booked, etc., etc. So you are wrong - I get inconvencied when travelling with the exact same practical effect as this guy all the time.

Distingushing between issues related and unrelated to a person is relevant in alleged discrimination cases like this. None of the reasons you enumerated is related to you personally, whereas the person in this story was offboarded because of issues related to his person.

That's why it's not a problem.  Now if the government put court order out to look at smartphone as part of a murder investigation, well, Berkut has a smartphone!  That's an egregious violation of liberty.  We just don't understand freedom.

[garbon]

He was a victim of a bunch of circumstances beyond his control where he got screwed by the system. We all get screwed by the system all the time

Ah yes, all screwings are equal.

[Berkut]

He was a victim of a bunch of circumstances beyond his control where he got screwed by the system. We all get screwed by the system all the time

Ah yes, all screwings are equal.

Not at all - but you have not provided any reason to believe this one was less equal, or that there is some kind of problem with the system itself.

To the extent that there is *any* story here, or any claim to racism, it is limited to individuals, and you don't even know if race was a part of it at all.

Other than, of course, the guy is black, so I guess if something bad happens to him it is automatically racist.

[garbon]

He was a victim of a bunch of circumstances beyond his control where he got screwed by the system. We all get screwed by the system all the time

Ah yes, all screwings are equal.

Not at all - but you have not provided any reason to believe this one was less equal, or that there is some kind of problem with the system itself.

To the extent that there is *any* story here, or any claim to racism, it is limited to individuals, and you don't even know if race was a part of it at all.

Other than, of course, the guy is black, so I guess if something bad happens to him it is automatically racist.

Oh white people. It must be so lovely.

[garbon]

As you said in the other thread, there really isn't much for us to discuss if you take no issue with the events as they went down. Finger strain for both of us for no real purpose.

[Razgovory]

He was a victim of a bunch of circumstances beyond his control where he got screwed by the system. We all get screwed by the system all the time

Ah yes, all screwings are equal.

Not at all - but you have not provided any reason to believe this one was less equal, or that there is some kind of problem with the system itself.

To the extent that there is *any* story here, or any claim to racism, it is limited to individuals, and you don't even know if race was a part of it at all.

Other than, of course, the guy is black, so I guess if something bad happens to him it is automatically racist.

Oh white people. It must be so lovely.

It has its perks!

[Berkut]

He was a victim of a bunch of circumstances beyond his control where he got screwed by the system. We all get screwed by the system all the time

Ah yes, all screwings are equal.

Not at all - but you have not provided any reason to believe this one was less equal, or that there is some kind of problem with the system itself.

To the extent that there is *any* story here, or any claim to racism, it is limited to individuals, and you don't even know if race was a part of it at all.

Other than, of course, the guy is black, so I guess if something bad happens to him it is automatically racist.

Oh white people. It must be so lovely.

That is rather astoundingly racist of you. Well played?

[garbon]

[Berkut]

Is that not the definition of the very racism you decry? An assumption that my views and opinion is informed by my race - that I am not capable of simply disagreeing with you on the merits of the story, rather than because I am white?

The irony is that the story makes no mention of his race at all - it doesn't say that the person complained because of his race, or that security made a comment about his race, or gave any indication whatsoever that the outcome was dependent on his being not white.

I guess the demand here is that I *must* conclude that none of this would have happened had he not been black, otherwise I am just a amusing, funny blind white person. You know, because I am white.

[Eddie Teach]

Oh white people. It must be so lovely.

Do you think a ledger entry "ISI men" wouldn't have aroused suspicion if he was white?

It's really easy to find racism if you're unwilling to write anything off as just bad luck.