Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Monoriu]

Huh?  Meat packing is like the lowest of the low-end jobs in Canada at least.  It pays poorly, it's very dangerous, it stinks.  It's work typically done only by African immigrants these days (though back in the day... my parents grew up within smelling distance of the meat packing plants, and the low-end immigrants who did that kind of work were Ukrainians).

There's some small movement for "artisanal" butchers that doo all right, but being a meat packer is about the absolute last job I'd ever recommend for anyone.

I have no idea how it works in Canada.  In Hong Kong, the "pork dudes" earn decent money (by local standards).  The apprentices start at around US$20-22k a year, and a shop owner can earn 2 or 3 times that.  It is of course not as good as a mid level office worker.  But that's actually 50% higher than entry level office clerks.  The salary is decent because as you note it is an unpleasant job.  The majority of the workers are in their 50s and 60s, and they need to pay decent wages to attract new blood. 

The "pork dudes" don't work in plants.  They are small businesses in the wet markets.  They receive pig carcasses from the slaughter houses, chop them up, and sell them to customers.  It is a customer-facing job.  It isn't just about chopping up the carcasses.  They also need to talk to the housewives, get friendly with them, know their names, etc.  That's why a female meat chopper can work.  It is also a reason why they can't hire a Pakistani for the job. 

[Zanza]

Wet markets where pork dudes chop meat don't really exist in the Western world anymore wit some rare exceptions. We buy our food overwhelmingly in supermarkets.

The job happens in factories and is one of the worst paid around. Unlike Canada, it's still Ukrainians or so doing it here.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I really don't think that there is a major risk of skilled British people not being allowed to work abroad. If anything the risk is that a weaker economy might tempt even more skilled workers to move abroad. Meanwhile over 10% of the British workforce are foreigners of one sort or another, many of them skilled, throw them out or restrict foreign recruitment and there will be a dreadful labour shortage. If there are any restrictions introduced I would expect them to fall on less-skilled workers. We are left with the standard rich world conundrum, some groups are doing well under globalisation but others are doing poorly and it is difficult to devise policies that help them.

I'm not sure, in America at least we have a nation of origin quota system, which probably makes it relatively easy for Brits to come here because I don't think British to American immigration is super high. Whereas Indian to American immigration is super high, skilled Indians are currently in a 6-8 year queue to get in. But I think the commonwealth has some reduction in movement/work barriers, no? That might help with things like moving to Canada / NZ / AUS.

Australia is a huge destination for British emigrants, roughly twice as many as the USA, emigration to Canada is about the same as to the States. With people like doctors one almost gets the impression that they switch between Britain and Australia according to how good the current deals are. Some elements of the remain camp mocked brexiters for harping on about the Empire. I don't recall any brexiters doing this. However, many families here have branches in the old dominions, it is a living link and if anything is getting stronger due to cheap flights.

[Josquius]

I don't want to go to Australia.
It's so.... immigranty. Too final.
And every living thing beneath the horrible desert sun wants to kill you.

[celedhring]

Australia is quite popular for Spanish emigrants, for whatever reasons. It's one of the top non-European, non-Spanish speaking destinations.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I don't want to go to Australia.
It's so.... immigranty. Too final.
And every living thing beneath the horrible desert sun wants to kill you.

I agree with that, can't see the attraction at all. I prefer the sound of NZ (South Island), I'd quite like to get a retirement place there and spend 6 months per year in each country, thus getting two mild summers 

[Zanza]

U.K. Won't Abandon Leading Role in Europe, Boris Johnson Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-18/u-k-won-t-abandon-leading-role-in-europe-boris-johnson-says

Yeah, right. Fuck off, you muppet.

[Monoriu]

I have been to Australia several times and I think the place is really nice.  Blue sky, fresh air, friendly people, amazing scenaries, good food.  I assume it shares roughly the same pros and cons with Canada.  Good education and health care, horrible job prospects and heavy tax burden.

[The Larch]

Australia is quite popular for Spanish emigrants, for whatever reasons. It's one of the top non-European, non-Spanish speaking destinations.

Really? I haven't heard of anyone going there. I'd say that the top non-European, non Spanish speaking destination for recent inmigrants has been Brazil.

[Valmy]

U.K. Won't Abandon Leading Role in Europe, Boris Johnson Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-18/u-k-won-t-abandon-leading-role-in-europe-boris-johnson-says

Yeah, right. Fuck off, you muppet.

The UK will always have a leading role in Europe, no matter how much that might annoy other Europeans. They are a big country in the neighborhood.

[celedhring]

Australia is quite popular for Spanish emigrants, for whatever reasons. It's one of the top non-European, non-Spanish speaking destinations.

Really? I haven't heard of anyone going there. I'd say that the top non-European, non Spanish speaking destination for recent inmigrants has been Brazil.

Forgot about Brazil :p

I have a few friends that have gone there. According to wikipedia it's the 20th overall and the 3rd non-Spanish, non-European.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigraci%C3%B3n_espa%C3%B1ola

It gets almost as many Spanish emigrants as Italy (which would be a more natural destination). So that's not too shabby.

EDIT: Might be a Catalan thing? Apparently it has the 7th highest number of registered Catalan communities according to our regional government.

[The Minsky Moment]

U.K. Won't Abandon Leading Role in Europe, Boris Johnson Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-18/u-k-won-t-abandon-leading-role-in-europe-boris-johnson-says

Yeah, right. Fuck off, you muppet.

The UK will always have a leading role in Europe, no matter how much that might annoy other Europeans. They are a big country in the neighborhood.

Reaction is to the messenger not the message.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I really don't think that there is a major risk of skilled British people not being allowed to work abroad. If anything the risk is that a weaker economy might tempt even more skilled workers to move abroad. Meanwhile over 10% of the British workforce are foreigners of one sort or another, many of them skilled, throw them out or restrict foreign recruitment and there will be a dreadful labour shortage. If there are any restrictions introduced I would expect them to fall on less-skilled workers. We are left with the standard rich world conundrum, some groups are doing well under globalisation but others are doing poorly and it is difficult to devise policies that help them.

I'm not sure, in America at least we have a nation of origin quota system, which probably makes it relatively easy for Brits to come here because I don't think British to American immigration is super high. Whereas Indian to American immigration is super high, skilled Indians are currently in a 6-8 year queue to get in. But I think the commonwealth has some reduction in movement/work barriers, no? That might help with things like moving to Canada / NZ / AUS.

Australia is a huge destination for British emigrants, roughly twice as many as the USA, emigration to Canada is about the same as to the States. With people like doctors one almost gets the impression that they switch between Britain and Australia according to how good the current deals are. Some elements of the remain camp mocked brexiters for harping on about the Empire. I don't recall any brexiters doing this. However, many families here have branches in the old dominions, it is a living link and if anything is getting stronger due to cheap flights.

I'm surprised emigration from Britain to the US is about the same as to Canada (even accounting for the fact  America is 10x as large as Canada), I would've thought it'd be smaller. I have interacted with honest to god Brit immigrants only a small handful of times I can remember, excluding professionals I've met from Britain who are here only temporarily in fields like education or finance.

[Sheilbh]

MP just asked "Are you prepared to authorise a nuclear strike that could kill 100,000s of men, women and children?"

Theresa May: "Yes".

Trident debate, not Brexit. But bloody he'll

[Richard Hakluyt]

She has to say that though, otherwise why waste the money on the deterrent?