Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

Saw a bunch of old people with a Leave stand in the mini-fair in town this morning. I was itching for them to try and hand me a leaflet so I could tell them I am an immigrant so I can't vote.

[Sheilbh]

How will that work?
Some sort of one off registration and get a permanent resident visa?
Thats some sanity from the leavers at least.

They're not monsters. Yeah basically, they'll all be allowed to permanent residents if they want.

Saw a bunch of old people with a Leave stand in the mini-fair in town this morning. I was itching for them to try and hand me a leaflet so I could tell them I am an immigrant so I can't vote.

I don't want to tell you....bur Irish and Commonwealth citizens can vote

It's basically who can vote in a General Election, but Europeans can only vote in Local and European elections

Edit: Incidentally poll today showing a 10 point lead for Leave. I don't believe it for a minute and we'll need other polls to confirm any trend but it does feel like Leave have a bit of momentum/like the last fortnight of the Scottish referendum.

[The Larch]

Saw a bunch of old people with a Leave stand in the mini-fair in town this morning. I was itching for them to try and hand me a leaflet so I could tell them I am an immigrant so I can't vote.

I don't want to tell you....bur Irish and Commonwealth citizens can vote

It's basically who can vote in a General Election, but Europeans can only vote in Local and European elections

Yeah, when I read about it at first it sounded really strange to me. So an Australian in a gap year can vote on the future of the UK in the EU but an EU (non Irish) resident can't? That was really bizarre to me, but then I read about the referendum using the same rules for voting than the general elections and it made sense, even if it seems a bit unfair to me.

[Sheilbh]

It's EU law that EU citizens have a right to vote in municipal and European elections, but it doesn't cover generals.

We have deals with Commonwealth countries (and Ireland) that let's them vote in our general and we can vote in theirs. But I'm not sure if they actually get to vote in, say, European elections

So Irish, Maltese and Cypriots citizens are the only EU migrants who'll get to vote. I can see both sides but it does seem unfair.

[The Larch]

It's EU law that EU citizens have a right to vote in municipal and European elections, but it doesn't cover generals.

We have deals with Commonwealth countries (and Ireland) that let's them vote in our general and we can vote in theirs. But I'm not sure if they actually get to vote in, say, European elections

So Irish, Maltese and Cypriots citizens are the only EU migrants who'll get to vote. I can see both sides but it does seem unfair.

Yeah, yeah, I know how it's organized, but I wonder if it wouldn't have been fairer to determine who could vote in a different way, also allowing UK expats in other EU countries to vote as well, for instance. We talked about that while you were away, if you dig a bit you can find our discussions on that.

[Sheilbh]

The government changed the rules so people who've been registered to vote here in the last 15 years can vote (up from 5), I think that seems about fair

[The Larch]

The government changed the rules so people who've been registered to vote here in the last 15 years can vote (up from 5), I think that seems about fair

You're talking about UK expats in other countries, right?

[Sheilbh]

Yep.

Totally unrelated but I was speaking to an Irish friend recently and apparently to vote in Ireland you actually have to be there - there's no voting from a foreign country hence all the young people flying back for the gay marriage vote.

But apparently you are meant to stay in Ireland a minimum length before you can vote. So she was saying that technically they were all breaking the law but everyone was so positive and happy about it all they were, just like 'ah, sure'

[Tamas]

Nah, I think it is perfectly fair that I don't get to vote: would be pretty silly, I am not a citizen, why should I have a say in this?

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'd prefer it if all citizens could vote. On the other hand, presuming we stay in the EU, over the long term I think it will inevitably move towards some sort of residency qualification.

[The Larch]

Yep.

What's the rationale for removing someone's right to vote because of living abroad? I'm not really comfortable with the idea of being disposessed of that very essential right when you still have the citizenship, just because you're living abroad when it's possible that you can't vote in your adoptive country by virtue of being a foreigner. By that same token I guess that you could theoretically argue that long term residents of your country could be able to vote in general elections even if they don't have citizenship.

Totally unrelated but I was speaking to an Irish friend recently and apparently to vote in Ireland you actually have to be there - there's no voting from a foreign country hence all the young people flying back for the gay marriage vote.

But apparently you are meant to stay in Ireland a minimum length before you can vote. So she was saying that technically they were all breaking the law but everyone was so positive and happy about it all they were, just like 'ah, sure'

What? Ireland doesn't have the option of voting by mail? And we complain over here about the difficulties of voting from abroad...

[Sheilbh]

What's the rationale for removing someone's right to vote because of living abroad? I'm not really comfortable with the idea of being disposessed of that very essential right when you still have the citizenship, just because you're living abroad when it's possible that you can't vote in your adoptive country by virtue of being a foreigner. By that same token I guess that you could theoretically argue that long term residents of your country could be able to vote in general elections even if they don't have citizenship.

I mean non-citizens can vote in our general elections - see Irish and Commonwealth - if they are resident. The argument I'd make is that you should have some sort of connection to the place you're voting in. If you're a permanent expat who hasn't been registered to vote in the UK for the past 15 years then I don't think you have that sort of connection. Personally I'd be far more comfortable giving immigrant non-citizens resident for, say, 5 years the vote in a general election than an overseas citizen who's not been registered for over a decade.

For what it's worth the Tories do actually plan to change the law so British citizens can always vote in general elections so we'd be more in line with your view.

What? Ireland doesn't have the option of voting by mail? And we complain over here about the difficulties of voting from abroad...

I don't think so, certainly not from overseas. I know a few people who flew home to vote in the general election (and, you know, saw family etc)

I'd prefer it if all citizens could vote. On the other hand, presuming we stay in the EU, over the long term I think it will inevitably move towards some sort of residency qualification.

I'm the opposite I'd prefer a more residency based system. Obviously any Brit registered in the UK could vote but they lose that after a length of time overseas (I think 15 years seems reasonable) until they return. But resident non-citizens could vote (automatically for Irish and Commonwealth) after a few years.

[Josquius]

I like that it is much easier to vote from abroad now than it used to be.
Though it is a weird setup, that you're registered in the last place you were living in the UK even if you've been gone 10 years.
IMO we should have a handful of parliamentary seats specifically for Brits abroad. Like the Italians do.

[Monoriu]

I don't care if I can vote or not.  I won't anyway. 

[Sheilbh]

I don't care if I can vote or not.  I won't anyway.

What about if you could in the UK over this referendum?

It's getting narrow and the choices are a status quo in favour of a bureaucratic union, or potentially very high risk change