Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

BBC4 surviving where 3 was once canned always did seem a very questionable decision. The BBC certainly trends a bit too high brow on occasion. But the response isn't the encourage the worst aspects of the country onwards.

As the example up of the racist 83 year old aristocrat shows, I'm really not sure the "semi-skilled & unskilled manual occupations, unemployed and lowest grade occupations" are the worst aspects of this country (or any country)

[OttoVonBismarck]

If there is anything good in Britain, it is certainly in the working class and not the traditional upper middle class / upper class who are responsible for almost all British sins ever committed.

[Barrister]

FFS I wonder how many generations it will take for "visible minorities" to be accepted as British. I remember reading once how in Denmark even third-generation immigrants are just "immigrants"

So, I mean I understand how visible minorities would feel like the question "where are you from" seems to imply that they don't really belong.

But it's also such a natural and human reaction to figure out how other people fit into the world, and whether you have some connection with them.  And almost everyone I know is proud of their ancestry, whether they moved within their lifetime, or 5 generations back.  I mean I feel like I have a slight kinship with anyone of Ukrainian heritage, even if neither of us have ever been there or speak the language.

I understand how the woman in question, being grilled about her heritage at Buckingham Palace, feels like she's being told she doesn't belong.  But I also feel that if she met someone else of black Caribbean heritage they'd both quickly comment that fact to each other.

I don't know what the answer is.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I'm interested in people's background and I talk about mine. But I don't think I'd ask in that way and I'd be careful with tone, because I think tone is key.

I'd guess tone might not be great with an 83 year old aristocrat and "courtier".

[Valmy]

FFS I wonder how many generations it will take for "visible minorities" to be accepted as British. I remember reading once how in Denmark even third-generation immigrants are just "immigrants"

The Roma and the Jews have been in Europe for so long nobody quite knows when they first arrived yet they were never accepted.

[Josquius]

BBC4 surviving where 3 was once canned always did seem a very questionable decision. The BBC certainly trends a bit too high brow on occasion. But the response isn't the encourage the worst aspects of the country onwards.

As the example up of the racist 83 year old aristocrat shows, I'm really not sure the "semi-skilled & unskilled manual occupations, unemployed and lowest grade occupations" are the worst aspects of this country (or any country)

There's ITV watchers amidst all of these questionable ABCD groups

Though on average stats show more at the lower end I do think it's rather patronising to go too much into "the working class must like love Island" thinking.
I don't think employment class is the key factor in determining who has no taste.

I'm maybe going a bit old school communist here but I can't help but think about how we should be spurring working people on to better themselves. Less more trashy low brow reality tv and more presenting good stuff in more accessible ways, more diverse settings for comedies (bring back sitcoms!), etc...

[garbon]

FFS I wonder how many generations it will take for "visible minorities" to be accepted as British. I remember reading once how in Denmark even third-generation immigrants are just "immigrants"

So, I mean I understand how visible minorities would feel like the question "where are you from" seems to imply that they don't really belong.

But it's also such a natural and human reaction to figure out how other people fit into the world, and whether you have some connection with them.  And almost everyone I know is proud of their ancestry, whether they moved within their lifetime, or 5 generations back.  I mean I feel like I have a slight kinship with anyone of Ukrainian heritage, even if neither of us have ever been there or speak the language.

I understand how the woman in question, being grilled about her heritage at Buckingham Palace, feels like she's being told she doesn't belong.  But I also feel that if she met someone else of black Caribbean heritage they'd both quickly comment that fact to each other.

I don't know what the answer is.

The answer is clear. You don't need to trace someone's geneaology when you first meet them. If you can't mind your own business, then stop asking after the initial question - for certain by the 2nd. There's no need to go further than that.

[Barrister]

I don't know what the answer is.

The answer is clear. You don't need to trace someone's geneaology when you first meet them. If you can't mind your own business, then stop asking after the initial question - for certain by the 2nd. There's no need to go further than that.

In the quoted dialogue it was rapidly clear that the lady did not want to have that particular discussion, for sure, and it was remarkably poor manners to keep pressing.

But I guess I disagree that asking "Where are you from" by itself is offensive.

[Gups]

It's just weird as a first question. Equivalent to asking someone what their dad does or what school they went to.

[Sheilbh]

It's just weird as a first question. Equivalent to asking someone what their dad does or what school they went to.

Yeah. And you'd think having watched the Queen do it for 60 years that she'd have mastered safe small talk like "have you come far?"

[garbon]

It's just weird as a first question. Equivalent to asking someone what their dad does or what school they went to.

[HVC]

Or couch it better. Where is your family from. So you're not calling them personally foreign.

I have a weird name and I tan, so I get asked were I'm from all the time. Doesn't bother me. But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother everyone. Ask once, clarify and move if they're still being obtuse.

[Admiral Yi]

I regularly ask people what their ethnicity is.  Maybe not as a first question (though sometimes) but often as a 3rd or 4th.

No introductory chit chat is anyone's "business."

[garbon]

I don't know what the answer is.

The answer is clear. You don't need to trace someone's geneaology when you first meet them. If you can't mind your own business, then stop asking after the initial question - for certain by the 2nd. There's no need to go further than that.

In the quoted dialogue it was rapidly clear that the lady did not want to have that particular discussion, for sure, and it was remarkably poor manners to keep pressing.

But I guess I disagree that asking "Where are you from" by itself is offensive.

https://hbr.org/2020/10/whats-wrong-with-asking-where-are-you-from

What's Wrong with Asking "Where Are You From?"

...

Here is the problem: For those of us who already feel "different" in a given space, being asked where we're from carries implicit assumptions about our race, caste, ethnicity, nationality, etc. Often, it translates into: You don't seem to (already) belong here. It validates existing beliefs about social identities and can be quite patronizing. For instance, following-up the question with, "Oh, of course" or "Yes, you do look like you're from [country]" can force people into neat categories of race, gender, or nationality, without acknowledging the nuances of that person's identity.

None of us have singular identities and most of us belong in many places. People can belong in different geographies, cultures, and identities at the same time. Most of us don't identify with markers we were born with. So, to me, the question, "Where are you from?" is very reductive.

Rest of article, I think has some good different perspectives on the question though at times the cringe word microagression is mentioned.

[garbon]

Or couch it better. Where is your family from. So you're not calling them personally foreign.

I have a weird name and I tan, so I get asked were I'm from all the time. Doesn't bother me. But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother everyone. Ask once, clarify and move if they're still being obtuse.

That's usually the annoying follow-up after you've gone through the sequence of establishing your bona fides (first where are you from? where do you come from? where are you originally from). Wtf does it matter where my family is from? We just met.