Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Larch]

Btw, I'm sure that the absolute glut of German TV films and shows that flood our tv stations at the moment are to blame for these European quotas. My mom loves them, but there surely must be a limit to the amount of bucolic alpine landscapes that can be shown in a weekend.

Heimat films made it to Spain? Must be wonderful to see and hear them dubbed in Castilian. 

Well, at least it is not dour as old German Krimis (Hallo Derrick!).

They're mostly very very vanilla family dramas set up in Alpine locations. My mom is a huge fan of "Der Bergdoktor". There's also another popular subgenre of mostly romantic films done in location all over Europe, with a fair amount of them being based on Rosamunde Pilcher's novels, which can be recognized because they all take place in Cornwall.

First I thought by the bergdoktor you meant this old one, which was a massive hit in Hungary in the late 80s/early 90s, of course there was precious little to watch back then:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088601/

Nope, not that one, it's actually this one: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1177054/

It's a TV show that has been on the air since 2008, and a remake of a previos 90s show, based, IIRC, on a series of pulp romantic novels from the 80s.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The ideal streaming service would have absolutely everthing on it so that one could choose what to watch. They don't of course, but the potential EU move will further restrict choice or lead to legalistic chicanery over the origin of a show. It is a protectionist measure that reduces choice for EU citizens; I think it is a terrible decision.

[Zoupa]

Is this yet another example of the Brits wanting to have their cake and eat it too?

I'm shocked, shocked!

[Josquius]

Fucking hell - NIMBYism in this country

The Labour Party
@UKLabour
The Conservatives' developers' charter would sell off and sell out our communities.

Local people, not Tory Party donors, should decide what's best for where they live.

Labour does seem to be going too far with encouraging nimbyism and letting people just have a blanket say on what happens.

Though to be fair though the tories do seem to be going too far the other way in just letting developers do whatever.

I have no doubt of course that this will only apply for the north and developers will still be stopped from concreting the cotswolds et al.

I think people often see it as just another layer of politicians. It might be that as we see Sadiq and Burnham and Houchen doing quite well for their regions that there is now support for regional devolution - but I'm not sure. And even if there is I still think there's an issue with no democratic, political expression of England. Not least because Zanza's right, we could end up having a political expression of England if the union collapses and we should probably start working out what Englishness is before then. I think it could be an issue if we are surprised by nationhood in a few years without having done something towards reconciling England to England

And there's promising signs about that - especially from Sunder Katwala's Beyond a 90 Minute Nation stuff

The another layer of politicians stuff is true. I suspect I voted against it in that referendum for this reason. Being a kid at the time the tiny cost of politician salaries in the grand scale of things and all that wouldn't have really jumped out to me then there was the lack of advantages.

England as England... No. This makes me shudder with disgust. I'll take the passport of course, not going to say no to any passport on offer, but I'll never identify as English.
Its just such a horrid little halfway concept. A complete accident of history that has no meaning on the ground beyond the artificial one being built up in recent decades.
This whole thing of cricket on village greens and vicars on bikes and all that imagery (I can't remember where this is pulled from to give the actual stuff) is all thoroughly foreign.
I'm only English when there's international sport on. And increasingly less so in event years.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Is this yet another example of the Brits wanting to have their cake and eat it too?

I'm shocked, shocked!

The really popular stuff that makes the money will be sold anyway. The losers will be various people within the EU who enjoy watching niche British tv shows of one sort or another, similar to Larch's mom enjoying "Der Bergdoktor".

[Sheilbh]

Yes it could be bad for our "gentle procedural" export industry

[celedhring]

Is this yet another example of the Brits wanting to have their cake and eat it too?

I'm shocked, shocked!

The really popular stuff that makes the money will be sold anyway. The losers will be various people within the EU who enjoy watching niche British tv shows of one sort or another, similar to Larch's mom enjoying "Der Bergdoktor".

Larch's mom can probably watch that because the EU forces the tv station to carry Euro shows though. In the past those slots were filled by the 3853644th rerun of NCIS.

We can have the whole discussion about cultural protectionism, but the fact is that it has been part of EU's policy since the 1990s, and it's not surprising the UK will now stop benefitting from it.

[garbon]

I brought it up because I thought the policy was bad in general, not because of its impact on the UK.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Is this yet another example of the Brits wanting to have their cake and eat it too?

I'm shocked, shocked!

The really popular stuff that makes the money will be sold anyway. The losers will be various people within the EU who enjoy watching niche British tv shows of one sort or another, similar to Larch's mom enjoying "Der Bergdoktor".

Larch's mom can probably watch that because the EU forces the tv station to carry Euro shows though. In the past those slots were filled by the 3853644th rerun of NCIS.

We can have the whole discussion about cultural protectionism, but the fact is that it has been part of EU's policy since the 1990s, and it's not surprising the UK will now stop benefitting from it.

I think the financial effect on the UK will be minimal to nonexistent, I just don't like the parochialism. Since my family signed up for streaming services we have greatly enjoyed a variety of foreign language productions, over 50% of my viewing is in a foreign language, I would hate to go back to just English language stuff. The risk is that the EU will be effectively banning content of interest to (eg) German history teachers whilst still letting a deluge of popular crap be shown.

[Duque de Bragança]

Btw, I'm sure that the absolute glut of German TV films and shows that flood our tv stations at the moment are to blame for these European quotas. My mom loves them, but there surely must be a limit to the amount of bucolic alpine landscapes that can be shown in a weekend.

Heimat films made it to Spain? Must be wonderful to see and hear them dubbed in Castilian. 

Well, at least it is not dour as old German Krimis (Hallo Derrick!).

They're mostly very very vanilla family dramas set up in Alpine locations. My mom is a huge fan of "Der Bergdoktor". There's also another popular subgenre of mostly romantic films done in location all over Europe, with a fair amount of them being based on Rosamunde Pilcher's novels, which can be recognized because they all take place in Cornwall.

First I thought by the bergdoktor you meant this old one, which was a massive hit in Hungary in the late 80s/early 90s, of course there was precious little to watch back then:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088601/

Oh my, Die Schwarzwaldklinik.  I remember that one, and there was even a sunny tropic spin-off.
I liked when an actor of a Krimi turned to the bad guy of the week in that soap or vice versa.

[Sheilbh]

England as England... No. This makes me shudder with disgust. I'll take the passport of course, not going to say no to any passport on offer, but I'll never identify as English.
Its just such a horrid little halfway concept. A complete accident of history that has no meaning on the ground beyond the artificial one being built up in recent decades.

I mean with Denmark and maybe Sweden, England is probably one of the "oldest" European nations where there's broadly been a political unit within broadly the same boundaries for about a thousand years.

This whole thing of cricket on village greens and vicars on bikes and all that imagery (I can't remember where this is pulled from to give the actual stuff) is all thoroughly foreign.
I'm only English when there's international sport on. And increasingly less so in event years.

That cricket on village greens stuff to me is just Orwell in that essay - I think the Lion and the Unicorn. But yes, stereotypes are quite foreign to people living in a country. I think Englishness as cricket on village greens and vicars on bikes is a bit "dere's more to Ireland dan dis" from Alan Partridge

Not least because England is the most diverse bit of the UK and probably the most urbanised - so a vision that is old maids, warm beer and village greens is as quaint as a German identity built on Alpine vilages and lederhosen. It doesn't connect to reality.

I just wish more writers, journalists, politicians, pundits and activists would say England/English when that's what they mean, instead of saying Britain/British which is something we share with the wider union and is more limited. Health and social care, education, most transport, agriculture, the environment, some of the big utilities provision, housing are all English policy areas however much government ministers like to sit in front of a union flag.

[Duque de Bragança]

I think the financial effect on the UK will be minimal to nonexistent, I just don't like the parochialism. Since my family signed up for streaming services we have greatly enjoyed a variety of foreign language productions, over 50% of my viewing is in a foreign language, I would hate to go back to just English language stuff. The risk is that the EU will be effectively banning content of interest to (eg) German history teachers whilst still letting a deluge of popular crap be shown.

Streaming is actually a pretty poor example of choice since over here it's mostly recent TV Anglo stuff (US-UK), not so much non-Anglo programming. Some Nordic thrillers, those have been popular.
I really don't think English-language is going to be really restricted, with co-productions tricks all over the place. Plus, some countries such Germany, Italy, Spain and in a lesser extent France (say Paris and big cities) still cling to dubbing, so English language, relatively speaking. I am sure the dubbing lobby will find some compromise to avoid losing its money.

Not to mention that I don't think your family eclectic taste, to be commended, is really typical of the well-known British insularity or parochialism. 

Me, as a classic genre cinema I am not impressed by the "choice" in streaming.

[Sheilbh]

We can have the whole discussion about cultural protectionism, but the fact is that it has been part of EU's policy since the 1990s, and it's not surprising the UK will now stop benefitting from it.

I love European cultural protectionism - but on this point it's EU policy but it refers to the Council of Europe signatories which isn't an EU institution.

Given that, on the face of it, Brexit shouldn't actually have an impact on this. It seems like it's a choice and it'll affect other CofE/non-EEA members which is probably a shame - it might not matter much for their industries but still a bit of a shame.

[Sheilbh]

Labour does seem to be going too far with encouraging nimbyism and letting people just have a blanket say on what happens.

Though to be fair though the tories do seem to be going too far the other way in just letting developers do whatever.

I have no doubt of course that this will only apply for the north and developers will still be stopped from concreting the cotswolds et al.

Internet sleuths have found the origin of that photo from a Times article where it was originally captioned "£10 million is the new £5 million, say estate agents in the Cotswolds"

It's the village of Little Barrington, just outside Windrush in the Cotswolds. According to Zoopla the AVERAGE amount paid per house in that village is £1.6 million

[celedhring]

We can have the whole discussion about cultural protectionism, but the fact is that it has been part of EU's policy since the 1990s, and it's not surprising the UK will now stop benefitting from it.

I love European cultural protectionism - but on this point it's EU policy but it refers to the Council of Europe signatories which isn't an EU institution.

Given that, on the face of it, Brexit shouldn't actually have an impact on this. It seems like it's a choice and it'll affect other CofE/non-EEA members which is probably a shame - it might not matter much for their industries but still a bit of a shame.

Yes, but it is implemented via EU directive affecting EU member states. Removing the reference to the Transfrontier TV Convention from the directive would be trivial if pressure mounts to do so. It would be a boon for the local industries that British shows no longer count against the quotas, so the pressure from the industry will be there. I agree that this affecting third nations will probably make it a hard sell unless they get creative.

The EU media policy has been great for the Spanish media industry incidentally, which was in shambles in the 1990s. And yes, I probably owe my career to it so you can probably disregard my opinion on the subject