Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Where the cost of Johnson's renovation could buy you an entire house or flat:

[Josquius]

So red wall actually means just liverhull? Interesting.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I mean that's nonsense. The Humber's always been fairly Tory - it was the North-West, North-East and bits of South/West Yorkshire in my mind.

[Valmy]

I mean sure I could get a house on Islay for less than 200,000 but then I would be living on Islay.

[Sheilbh]

Yougov poll for Times sees Tories extend lead over Labour to 11 points despite:

* Half of people saying they agree Tories are very sleazy

* 31% saying they consider Johnson less honest than other politicians

40% of those polled have favourable view of Johnson, 51% unfavourable

Half of those polled believed Boris Johnson said he would rather see 'bodies pile high' than impose third lockdown - just 26% believed denial

A third said if he made comment it showed how little he values saving people

But half said it demonstrated his reluctance to lockdown

Britain in 2022 -

The wallpaper was actually made out of human skin.
Conservatives 46% (+4)
Labour 34% (-2)

This is the sort of thing that really hits home that for Labour this is still 1984/2002. They still need to convince people to even give them a hearing.

And, as I say, we're missing a good protest party.

[Josquius]

I do suspect many many people don't much care about the bodies piling high comment.
After all. The leopards won't eat THEIR face. And just think of all those sacrifices during the war. Its necessary for victory!

[Tamas]

On the topic of the Tories leading the polls: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/30/family-facing-40000-fire-safety-bill-told-they-can-contact-samaritans

[Sheilbh]

Interesting piece on the ongoing inquiry into undercover police spying on political groups - in this case anti-apartheid campaign Peter Hain who was spied on until 1994 by which point he was an MP. A year later he'd become a Labour whip, then a Labour shadow minister in 1996 and, after the 97 election, a minister in the Welsh Office. So he wasn't exactly some terrifying radical at this point.

Peter Hain accuses undercover police of lying over reports on apartheid campaign
Former minister tells public inquiry of 'staggering scale' of covert monitoring of peaceful protesters

Peter Hain next to a statue of Nelson Mandela in Parliament Square in 2019. He called the surveillance of him 'reprehensible, pointless and a massive waste of police resources'. Photograph: Tom Jenkins/The Guardian
Rob Evans
@robevansgdn
Fri 30 Apr 2021 14.53 BST

The former cabinet minister Peter Hain has accused undercover police officers of lying in their secret reports about the campaign he and others ran against apartheid and racism.

The Labour politician told a public inquiry the officers "very rarely told the truth" and exaggerated the threat of violence posed by the campaigners in what he called "straight lies and pernicious smears".

He repeatedly accused police spies of fabricating their reports on him and the other protesters in order to "justify their role or potentially to damage their targets, like me".

On Friday, Hain became the first politician to give evidence to the public inquiry looking into the use of undercover police to spy on more than 1,000 political groups since 1968.

The inquiry, headed by former judge Sir John Mitting, has released to Hain 70 secret reports that detail how at least six undercover officers spied on him between 1969 and 1994 while he campaigned against apartheid and racism.

The surveillance included spying on private political meetings held at his parents' home.

Hain, who went on to sit in the cabinet and authorise the deployment of undercover officers against terrorists, made a scathing attack on the "staggering scale" of the covert monitoring of peaceful protesters, calling it "reprehensible, pointless and a massive waste of police resources".

The last of the secret reports, three years after he had been elected to parliament, contained a list of the national executive of an anti-racist campaign, the Anti-Nazi League, on which he sat.

Hain, 71, is a peer and privy councillor after spending 24 years as an MP. During his time in the Commons, he was a member of the cabinet for seven years and a minister for a further five years in a series of Whitehall departments, including Northern Ireland and the Foreign Office.

He told the inquiry he was put under surveillance by the police when he was a "political activist, involved in non-violent activities and organising against some of the most appalling and abhorrent manifestations of racism and prejudice that existed during the 20th century, in particular the apartheid regime in South Africa".

He accused the British police spies of "putting themselves of the wrong side of history" by infiltrating anti-apartheid campaigners, when instead they should have been investigating violent acts carried out in London by the South African state. He said the South African and British police worked hand in glove with each other.

His family was forced from South Africa into exile in Britain in 1966 because of their political activities.

Hain came to prominence in 1969 as part of the campaign against South African sports tours of Britain. He accused undercover officers of embellishing their reports about peaceful campaigners to portray them as violent.

Other reports logged his involvement in public meetings of the anti-apartheid movement in the 1970s. The number plates of cars belonging to campaigners who attended the gatherings were also noted down.

Hain said he was also struck "by the pointlessness of undercover officers attending, reporting on and keeping reports of these meetings. The anti-apartheid movement was a mainstream   democratic organisation, rather than one focused on protest." Its leaders included bishops, he said.

The police spies also recorded the names of MPs who spoke at the movement's conferences. "As a parliamentarian and former senior minister of government, this minute detail into the surveillance of legitimate activities of MPs is striking," he said.

The spies also monitored Hain's activities between 1972 and 1975 while he was a member of the Young Liberals, then the youth wing of a mainstream political party. They reported details of small private meetings of this group and anti-apartheid campaigners that were held at his parents' home, where he also lived.

He added that undercover operations to arrest organised criminals, drug gangs and terrorists were justified. He said that while he was in government he was given access to "very sensitive intelligence" when he approved covert surveillance to foil Islamic terrorists.

"But undercover policing, entailing the expenditure of huge resources (presumably millions of pounds) over decades, involving spying on perfectly legitimate political and protest activity, is reprehensible".

The inquiry continues.

[Sheilbh]

Now not to go full Brexit - but this is striking. This also reminds me of all the moaning in the US of the lack of skilled workers. If you're not able to hire people, maybe you need to increase your wages rather than engage in special pleading for why the state should help out:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/01/uk-restaurants-pubs-brexit-staff-covid

The industry wants government to re-think it's approach on immigration, while analysts expect profit margins to shrink in the short term as hospitality businesses increase their pay and spend more on training. I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.

I saw reports that companies are having to pay around £15 an hour in parts of London and the South-East - which makes that wage pretty liveable for chefs and managers.

I've always kind of hated hospitality because I worked in it for a long time. I remember being told one company is quite high end in terms of the produce it uses, the prices it charges etc so it doesn't just pay the minimum wage; it paid 75p above the minimum wage Plus lots of owners who like to pretend that we're a tipping culture which, outside restaurants, we're not. And there were issues with tips not necessarily going to the staff - it's something I still always check before I pay service charge rather than leaving cash on the table

It's really annoying because on the other hand there's lots about the sector and work that I really loved

Edit: Also unrelated to the above but this seems like a good idea:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/may/01/salman-rushdie-and-bernardine-evaristo-on-shortlist-for-more-diverse-exam-texts

Basically one of the exam boards is expanding their literature curriculum to be more diverse and asking teachers to vote.

With all the talk about the need for a more diverse curriculum I had a look at a few of the course specifications and my impression was history courses have far more diverse and interesting options than I expected. But I suspect teachers don't take advantage of them because it's not stuff they learned or have had training in teaching.

However English literature courses are very white - especially in the post-1900 or post-1945 strands - and need urgent modernisation. I think in the one I looked at I counted two non-white novelists, no playwrights and no poets which is beyond poor.

[Tonitrus]

Now not to go full Brexit - but this is striking. This also reminds me of all the moaning in the US of the lack of skilled workers. If you're not able to hire people, maybe you need to increase your wages rather than engage in special pleading for why the state should help out:

In that American context, I get really impatient when I hear companies complain that the education system isn't producing the skilled workers they need.

Now while the education system has plenty of problems...it's purpose is NOT to provide skilled workers.  If a company wants skilled workers, it is their responsibility to hire people they think would make good workers, and train them to do the work they need them-fucking-selves.

[Josquius]

Restaurants having trouble paying people...it's tough. In London especially the minimum wage is crap and just doesn't go far enough. But by the same token that is an industry which often does have crap profit margins as it is. A lot just won't stay in business if forced to pay twice as much, and you just know it'll be the nice ones that close.
As I've said elsewhere with the government needing to encourage pubs I do think this is one area where some incentives would be in everyone's interest. They need to start thinking of the broader societal good of businesses and factoring that into these things.
And this isn't just fluffy socialist thinking, it makes sense from a brutal country  as a business way of thinking too, the big money employers you really want in your country /city tend to be attracted to things like restaurants, cultural life, etc...

Now not to go full Brexit - but this is striking. This also reminds me of all the moaning in the US of the lack of skilled workers. If you're not able to hire people, maybe you need to increase your wages rather than engage in special pleading for why the state should help out:

In that American context, I get really impatient when I hear companies complain that the education system isn't producing the skilled workers they need.

Now while the education system has plenty of problems...it's purpose is NOT to provide skilled workers.  If a company wants skilled workers, it is their responsibility to hire people they think would make good workers, and train them to do the work they need them-fucking-selves.

Nice idea on the surface but it's tough to get companies to be the one to do that. It makes so much better business sense to let your competitor's spend money doing that then use the money you saved to offer slightly higher wages to poach them away.
This sort of thing isn't going to be fixed by leaving companies to themselves, it needs serious push and incentives from government. Not to mention controls to stop the massive exploitation in apprentice systems.

[Richard Hakluyt]

"The industry wants government to re-think it's approach on immigration, while analysts expect profit margins to shrink in the short term as hospitality businesses increase their pay and spend more on training. I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing."

I think it is a good thing and one of the few decent things that may have come from brexit. One day perhaps our serving people will be as good as Parisian waiters 

[The Brain]

Now not to go full Brexit - but this is striking. This also reminds me of all the moaning in the US of the lack of skilled workers. If you're not able to hire people, maybe you need to increase your wages rather than engage in special pleading for why the state should help out:

In that American context, I get really impatient when I hear companies complain that the education system isn't producing the skilled workers they need.

Now while the education system has plenty of problems...it's purpose is NOT to provide skilled workers.  If a company wants skilled workers, it is their responsibility to hire people they think would make good workers, and train them to do the work they need them-fucking-selves.

For the individual it kind of sucks to go through the education system and still not have any marketable skills.

[Josquius]

"The industry wants government to re-think it's approach on immigration, while analysts expect profit margins to shrink in the short term as hospitality businesses increase their pay and spend more on training. I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing."

I think it is a good thing and one of the few decent things that may have come from brexit. One day perhaps our serving people will be as good as Parisian waiters 

Getting big images of a certain Mitchell and Webb sketch here....

Also need to point out my constant example of Japan as a counter point to the typical brexity argument of wages being simple supply and demand.

[Tonitrus]

Now not to go full Brexit - but this is striking. This also reminds me of all the moaning in the US of the lack of skilled workers. If you're not able to hire people, maybe you need to increase your wages rather than engage in special pleading for why the state should help out:

In that American context, I get really impatient when I hear companies complain that the education system isn't producing the skilled workers they need.

Now while the education system has plenty of problems...it's purpose is NOT to provide skilled workers.  If a company wants skilled workers, it is their responsibility to hire people they think would make good workers, and train them to do the work they need them-fucking-selves.

For the individual it kind of sucks to go through the education system and still not have any marketable skills.

Untold thousands of sociology graduates volunteer, and pay, for that suck every year.