Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Larch]

And it was Gibraltar the ones that wanted to join Schengen, it's not something they've been forced to accept.

All the concessions in taxes, finance sector, policing, etc... they were very much forced to, though. I'm happy with the deal. Should make things better for the area.

Most of those other concessions predate Brexit, though.

[celedhring]

And it was Gibraltar the ones that wanted to join Schengen, it's not something they've been forced to accept.

All the concessions in taxes, finance sector, policing, etc... they were very much forced to, though. I'm happy with the deal. Should make things better for the area.

Most of those other concessions predate Brexit, though.

IIRC the bulk of them were agreed in 2019.

[Josquius]

Gibraltar has now a closer relationship with the EU than it had before Brexit. It's kinda weird 

Can other remain voting areas have the same please?

[The Minsky Moment]

Gibraltar has now a closer relationship with the EU than it had before Brexit. It's kinda weird 

Seems like it is WAD.  For all the ritual nods to the Commonwealth, Brexit at its core is a Little Englander project.  It is Tory England turning its back on Northern Ireland, shrugging its shoulders at Scotland and the Union.  When Singapore is invoked as a model, it is apparent that imperial pretension is back in the rear view mirror.

[Maladict]

So, our foreign minister has just announced an 11th hour deal in principle regarding Gibraltar. It will become part of the Schengen area and Frontex will make border controls at the port and airport.

The Continent is ours! 

[Josquius]

And as expected the BBC is treating this national humiliation as something to celebrate. Ffs.

[Zoupa]

Ca y est, ils sont partis? Finalement... Bonne chance les rosbiffs, vous allez en avoir besoin.

[Iormlund]

So, our foreign minister has just announced an 11th hour deal in principle regarding Gibraltar. It will become part of the Schengen area and Frontex will make border controls at the port and airport.

From what I read Frontex will answer directly to Spain in the matter. I imagine most if not all the guards will be Spanish as well, since it would not make much sense to send staff from say, Bulgaria.
It is unclear what happens after the 4 year transition period. Spain probably plans to take over officially, judging from the wording used by the minister (referring to Frontex as a "confidence builder").
Also Gibraltar may enjoy some privileged access to the single market, but only though Spain's intermediation.

So basically Spain gets de facto if not de iure control over Gibraltar's borders.

[Sheilbh]

Gibraltar has now a closer relationship with the EU than it had before Brexit. It's kinda weird 

Seems like it is WAD.  For all the ritual nods to the Commonwealth, Brexit at its core is a Little Englander project. It is Tory England turning its back on Northern Ireland, shrugging its shoulders at Scotland and the Union.  When Singapore is invoked as a model, it is apparent that imperial pretension is back in the rear view mirror.

Agreed. But I'd add that what Brexit has really revealed in English politics is how unattached many people are to the union. It's been a pretty dispiriting discovery for someone like me who is a remainer and desperate to keep Scotland in the union (obvs I support a united Ireland).

So it's really striking as you say that Tory England doesn't care about Northern Ireland or Scotland. It's equally striking (and frustrating for me) to see Remainer England only care about Scotland or the Union to the extent it is a tool in their argument about Brexit - Brexit is bad because union. But because of Brexit a very significant number of them think the SNP and Sturgeon are great with they could move to a "normal", "sensible" country like Scotland and back independence. They only see Scotland through the prism of Brexit. There's similar but more diffuse views on Northern Ireland - generally polls of English people (which really sums up the tragedy of the unionists) view Northern Ireland as an "Irish" issue.

[Richard Hakluyt]

There are millions of Scots-English, Irish-English, Welsh-English and Scots-Irish-English of course...........but they do not seem to have a powerful voice.

[Duque de Bragança]

There are millions of Scots-English, Irish-English, Welsh-English and Scots-Irish-English of course...........but they do not seem to have a powerful voice.

And no British-English people; such a tragedy.

[Josquius]

Gibraltar has now a closer relationship with the EU than it had before Brexit. It's kinda weird 

Seems like it is WAD.  For all the ritual nods to the Commonwealth, Brexit at its core is a Little Englander project. It is Tory England turning its back on Northern Ireland, shrugging its shoulders at Scotland and the Union.  When Singapore is invoked as a model, it is apparent that imperial pretension is back in the rear view mirror.

Agreed. But I'd add that what Brexit has really revealed in English politics is how unattached many people are to the union. It's been a pretty dispiriting discovery for someone like me who is a remainer and desperate to keep Scotland in the union (obvs I support a united Ireland).

So it's really striking as you say that Tory England doesn't care about Northern Ireland or Scotland. It's equally striking (and frustrating for me) to see Remainer England only care about Scotland or the Union to the extent it is a tool in their argument about Brexit - Brexit is bad because union. But because of Brexit a very significant number of them think the SNP and Sturgeon are great with they could move to a "normal", "sensible" country like Scotland and back independence. They only see Scotland through the prism of Brexit. There's similar but more diffuse views on Northern Ireland - generally polls of English people (which really sums up the tragedy of the unionists) view Northern Ireland as an "Irish" issue.

I'm torn on it.
I really can't blame Scotland for wanting independence. It is in their best interests.
Though it will be massively in the worst interests of the broader UK.
I really don't know which way I'd vote if I was living in Scotland and the vote came up.

The SNP and Sturgeon...in a sensible country they'd be awful. But against the brexiters and corbyn its no wonder they shined. The nationalism is off putting but so much else seems better in Scotland. Starmer has yet to really show himself to see if Labour is an alternative.

[garbon]

I don't see how Scotland would be better off. All the problems would come home to roost

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Ca y est, ils sont partis? Finalement... Bonne chance les rosbiffs, vous allez en avoir besoin.

better hope there won't be humble pie to eat in a few decades then...

[Duque de Bragança]

Ca y est, ils sont partis? Finalement... Bonne chance les rosbiffs, vous allez en avoir besoin.