Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

Sensible politics by Starmer:
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Its risky in the extreme. Labour runs the risk of being wiped out as in the EU election. The Lib Dems no doubt will be loving this.
The challenge is can they convince people who are anti brexit to hold fire for a few years.

[Sheilbh]

Deal is passed in the Commons 521 to 73. Only two Brexit hardline Tories rebelled (John Redwood and Owen Paterson). Only one Labour MP voted against it (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) about 45 abstained. The abstentions are largely a mix of the hard left (many of whom are closet Lexiteers ) and largely MPs for very strongly remain areas such as parts of London, Bristol etc.

[Syt]

[Josquius]

Yes. She undoubtedly is. Well. In the other place.

[Zanza]

Deal is passed in the Commons 521 to 73. Only two Brexit hardline Tories rebelled (John Redwood and Owen Paterson). Only one Labour MP voted against it (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) about 45 abstained. The abstentions are largely a mix of the hard left (many of whom are closet Lexiteers ) and largely MPs for very strongly remain areas such as parts of London, Bristol etc.

From what I read, the implementation bill is a proper Enabling Act that moves much legislative power from parliament to government. I guess "taking back control" was not just from eurocrats, but also from backbench MPs.

[Sheilbh]

From what I read, the implementation bill is a proper Enabling Act that moves much legislative power from parliament to government. I guess "taking back control" was not just from eurocrats, but also from backbench MPs.

Yeah - it's not strictly necessary because signing treaties is a prerogative power, there's no ratification by parliament generally. So the deal has been agreed by the UK as a matter of international law. As it ever was - we have an elected dictatorship. Win a majority - do what you want until you lose an election. One of the nice things about European law were all of the useful concepts it introduced to our law (which are now here to stay) like proportionality etc.

But the Implementation Act which is necessary gives extremely broad powers to the executive because it basically amends "existing domestic law" to mean whatever is agreed as part of the TCA and gives the executive the power to write regulations including provisions which normally require primary legislation to implement the TCA domestically (and subject to certain exemptions). It's a law that's basically all made up of Henry VIII clauses

I can see the argument for it that for all the work the government lawyers have done there probably are still bits of UK law that need amending that they haven't identified, but I feel it should be strictly time-limited. The government has also never stopped using its emergency coronavirus powers and it definitely needs them now, but there's not been enough parliamentary scrutiny (in part because of the ridiculous decision to force MPs back to Westminster) and there's not enough sunset clauses in it for my liking - even though I get it's necessary.

Edit: And worth noting this is part of a general post-war explosion in Henry VIII clauses from a curiousity to fairly common - much to the disgust of public lawyers

[Zanza]

As parliament has just demonstrated they can pass very far reaching laws with just a days notice, there seems to be very little argument for needing these powers. If there is an urgent adjustment needed for some retained EU law, just pass a specific law within a day in parliament. As it is, it's just a huge government power grab at the cost of parliament. 

[Richard Hakluyt]

We are in urgent need of constitutional reform. The archaic British system cannot continue when you have bounders like Gove and Johnson in government.

[Sheilbh]

As parliament has just demonstrated they can pass very far reaching laws with just a days notice, there seems to be very little argument for needing these powers. If there is an urgent adjustment needed for some retained EU law, just pass a specific law within a day in parliament. As it is, it's just a huge government power grab at the cost of parliament.

I mean maybe - but doesn't that sort of also suggest that it's not really a power grab because a government with a majority can pass very far reaching laws with a day's notice through parliament?

I think this law is bad and should have a sunset clause, but in many ways it's getting attention because it's prominent and what I find more concerning is the regular way British governments include powers like these in legislation. I think we need some law that regulates Henry VIII clauses - set limits around them

[celedhring]

So, our foreign minister has just announced an 11th hour deal in principle regarding Gibraltar. It will become part of the Schengen area and Frontex will make border controls at the port and airport.

[Tamas]

So, our foreign minister has just announced an 11th hour deal in principle regarding Gibraltar. It will become part of the Schengen area and Frontex will make border controls at the port and airport.

Wow. So, basically, we have lost Gibraltar.

[celedhring]

Gibraltar has now a closer relationship with the EU than it had before Brexit. It's kinda weird 

[Sheilbh]

Gibraltar has now a closer relationship with the EU than it had before Brexit. It's kinda weird 

It's getting covered here but not much. It's another of those examples (like unionists in Northern Ireland) of people who feel their Britishness very strongly perhaps discovering those feelings aren't really reciprocated that much (unless and until they're invaded by a military junta)  

I mean it's a very good solution for Gibraltar which is the main thing.

Edit: The other thing that is slightly funny about this is the role reversal. Because Brexit you get liberal Londoners who are probably profoundly embarrassed by the UK's imperial legacy or the importance of Gibraltar as a naval base suddenly expressing their deep concern about it all, while you have the opposite with a bulldog tattoo on their chest suddenly not caring at all about concessions to Spain on Gibraltar if it speeds up "getting Brexit done"

[The Larch]

And it was Gibraltar the ones that wanted to join Schengen, it's not something they've been forced to accept.

[celedhring]

And it was Gibraltar the ones that wanted to join Schengen, it's not something they've been forced to accept.

All the concessions in taxes, finance sector, policing, etc... they were very much forced to, though. I'm happy with the deal. Should make things better for the area.