Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Not really important but I was surprised the Brighton bomb wasn't included in The Crown because it was a big event, almost killed Thatcher and utterly changed the security picture in Britain.

The whole Thatcher bit felt a bit rushed. Possibly because there was more focus on the royals and Diana.

Yeah - also the fact that they did the entire 80s in one season feels fairly light touch given how seismic they were in the UK (and especially given that Churchill's second term and MacMillan's term both get a single series).

[Razgovory]

Seeing US Representatives (including young ones like AOC) and Senators getting the vaccination and there's a cultural difference noted by Josh Glancy. In the UK if young, low-risk MPs or ministers were getting the vaccine I think there'd be absolute outrage at the queue-jumping/"one rule for them". No judgement on them - it's US policy and Congress has a lot more at risk people than Parliament, but it is quite a striking difference.

Edit: Incidentally this question by Pippa Crerar on the PM over-promising and under-delivering is excellent and Johnson's response an example of it:
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1341095828983844864?s=20

I think the vaccine will deliver but again - under-play and over-deliver not bluster

Scip was complaining about high-ups in the government getting access to the vaccine.  He pointed out that all these people are replaceable.  I countered that if taking the vaccine causes their supporters to take the vaccine then it is worth it.  Shockingly, Scip seem to think I had point.  There is a lot of hesitancy concerning the vaccine in the US and anything to get more people to take it is good.


Naturally the President isn't going to get the vaccine because he says he's already immune, proving that he is completely unable to think about the well being of other people for even a second.  I hate that man so much.

[Sheilbh]

Scip was complaining about high-ups in the government getting access to the vaccine.  He pointed out that all these people are replaceable.  I countered that if taking the vaccine causes their supporters to take the vaccine then it is worth it.  Shockingly, Scip seem to think I had point.  There is a lot of hesitancy concerning the vaccine in the US and anything to get more people to take it is good.

Maybe - it is a lot less divisive and political in the UK - and the US leadership is a lot older than the US so there are more genuinely at risk Reps and Senators.

I'm not sure and don't really have an opinion, and I'm not picking on AOC (she just instagrammed it so I know) but if a 31 year old, healthy MP was getting the vaccine ahead of the 75+ in this country there would be OUTRAGE. You wouldn't have protests because we don't do that but it'd be like the expenses scandal all over again, multiple days headline news on all pages, fury everywhere etc. It's just a very striking cultural difference.

[alfred russel]

Scip was complaining about high-ups in the government getting access to the vaccine.  He pointed out that all these people are replaceable.  I countered that if taking the vaccine causes their supporters to take the vaccine then it is worth it.  Shockingly, Scip seem to think I had point.  There is a lot of hesitancy concerning the vaccine in the US and anything to get more people to take it is good.

There are two reasons to give congresspeople the vaccine first:

-They are important and we need them to keep from dying, so they get to cut in line. If that logic holds, then what about CEOs of major corporations, or significant cultural figures?
-It will encourage others to get the vaccine. But if we are going to allow a few hundred/thousand people with significant influence in the population to cut in line to get the vaccine for that reason, why in gods name are we starting with congresspeople? Kim Kardashian, LeBron James, and Toby Keith should cut before they do.

Naturally the President isn't going to get the vaccine because he says he's already immune, proving that he is completely unable to think about the well being of other people for even a second.  I hate that man so much.

But he is right. He is at significantly reduced risk for covid versus the general population.

A vaccine for him won't go to someone who is currently in a nursing home or caring for someone in a nursing home. I really doubt he is being altruistic, and every documented moment of his life is evidence he doesn't think altruistically, but I don't think he should use limited vaccines for theater either.

[Syt]

This is a quite epic shot of trucks waiting:

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1341361613882994689?s=20

[The Brain]

This is a quite epic shot of trucks waiting:

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1341361613882994689?s=20

I happened to have Skyrim music playing when I watched this. Made it seem pretty epic.

[Syt]

Same

[The Brain]

[Josquius]

Great time to be a hooker in Kent.

[The Brain]

Great time to be a hooker in Kent.

TMI

[Zanza]

Talks between the UK, Gibraltar and Spain that would allow the territory to enter the Schengen area with free movement at the Rock's crucial land border are well advanced, according to reports in the Spanish media.

[...]

Ironically, the change forced by Brexit would bring Gibraltar closer to the EU than ever, with UK visitors still required to show their passports on arrival in the territory, while anyone crossing from Spain into Gibraltar or vice versa would walk through an open border.

Entry into Schengen would also allow Gibraltar to have flights from the 26 countries signed up to the open-border agreement, while currently only flights to and from Britain take place as Spain has not agreed to the territory entering the EU aviation space.

The difficulty lies in the policing of the new Schengen border in Gibraltar's ports and airport, with the Rock reportedly refusing to allow Spanish security forces onto its territory. Instead, the different sides are considering the option of bringing in agents from the EU's Frontex border agency.

Ah, Frontex controlling the border is really taking back control.  Actually, by joining Schengen, Gibraltar is probably closer to the EU than before Brexit.

[celedhring]

Yeah, Gibraltar has been pretty low-key compared to Northern Ireland but the UK has made big concessions there. The tax treaty between Spain and the UK will reduce a lot of the tax advantages Gibraltar enjoys vs Spain, and bring increased cooperation to fight tax fraud and money laundering (a historic Spanish demand). Gibraltar never wanted to make these concessions but Brexit has fucked up their position completely.

[Zanza]

The deal is still not done. Looks like it will be 2000 pages of treaty and annexes, all of which have to be carefully "scrubbed" and translated into 23 languages, although this latter bit is not necessary for provisional application. There is still a small chance for provisional application, but no deal on 1st January is now very likely just considering process questions as some EU member states cannot even constitutionally commit to provisional application without prior parliament decision.

As this is the most important partnership agreement the EU would ever conclude, I feel that a period of no deal that allows democratic scrutiny is worth the economic disruption by now.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

too bad we'll have to wait 30 years or longer to know if Brexit was a good or bad idea after all.
This thread has a future

[Josquius]

too bad we'll have to wait 30 years or longer to know if Brexit was a good or bad idea after all.
This thread has a future

Probably closer to 30 minutes.