Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Oexmelin]

Belgian ambassador brings up fishing rights granted by Charles II to Bruges fisherman in Brexit / EU debates...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/08/belgian-ambassador-throws-king-charles-ii-treaty-into-eu-fishing-debate?fbclid=IwAR37uWRWcEoZAUVHNJ-vSfCQBo2DoUSFWHHQsTtXr5Lch_E64wV6WIlFvSg

[Valmy]

That should make the English swoon. They love really really old laws.

[celedhring]

That should make the English swoon. They love really really old laws.

I loved seeing Spain and the UK arguing the minutiae of the Treaty of Utrecht in the 2000s, regarding the status of Gibraltar. 

[Sheilbh]

That should make the English swoon. They love really really old laws.

I am a big fan of it

Of course it does point to one area of the EU wanting to cherry-pick. I think Barnier has tried to change his mandate on this, I think he described positions as the "EU wants the status quo, the UK wants everything to change" and that discussions would need to be had "somewhere in between". But the fishing industry I think probably has the most bizarrely outsized sway when you look at influence to numbers of fishermen.

Edit: Just to go on that thought it's kind of interesting how the bits of the economy people thought were powerful have actually had least pull. European exporters (the proverbial car makers and prosecco producers) have not been banging on the door of the EU to compromise. In the UK the most Remain-y bit of the country, the City of London, hasn't been able to soften Brexit and from everything I've read and understand at no point did Johnson or May's governments consider aiming for access to the services single market. It's maybe a bit surprising when you then compare with the fishermen.

[Barrister]

That should make the English swoon. They love really really old laws.

I am a big fan of it

Of course it does point to one area of the EU wanting to cherry-pick. I think Barnier has tried to change his mandate on this, I think he described positions as the "EU wants the status quo, the UK wants everything to change" and that discussions would need to be had "somewhere in between". But the fishing industry I think probably has the most bizarrely outsized sway when you look at influence to numbers of fishermen.

While it amuses me also, surely it must have been superceded by any of the several hundred thousand international agreements covering fishing in the centuries since.

[The Larch]

That should make the English swoon. They love really really old laws.

I am a big fan of it

Of course it does point to one area of the EU wanting to cherry-pick. I think Barnier has tried to change his mandate on this, I think he described positions as the "EU wants the status quo, the UK wants everything to change" and that discussions would need to be had "somewhere in between". But the fishing industry I think probably has the most bizarrely outsized sway when you look at influence to numbers of fishermen.

While it amuses me also, surely it must have been superceded by any of the several hundred thousand international agreements covering fishing in the centuries since.

The argument for accessing other countries' national waters in Europe many times relies on proving that fishermen have had access to them for a really long time, so documents like that prove that those Belgian fishermen might have a good claim for continued access on the basis of those historical rights. It might be anecdotical... or it might not. They don't loose anything pointing to it, anyway.

[Sheilbh]

I mean those 50 Belgian fishermen are probably dead

[The Larch]

I mean those 50 Belgian fishermen are probably dead

Surely their fishing rights were inherited by their descendants. 

[Oexmelin]

I mean those 50 Belgian fishermen are probably dead

Or are they?

[Sheilbh]

I mean those 50 Belgian fishermen are probably dead

Surely their fishing rights were inherited by their descendants. 

Really hoping this goes to the dispute resolution mechanism. After an initial reference to the CJEU by French and Spanish fishermen that this sort of bi-partisan treaty goes against the rules of the European treaties

[viper37]

That should make the English swoon. They love really really old laws.

I am a big fan of it

Of course it does point to one area of the EU wanting to cherry-pick. I think Barnier has tried to change his mandate on this, I think he described positions as the "EU wants the status quo, the UK wants everything to change" and that discussions would need to be had "somewhere in between". But the fishing industry I think probably has the most bizarrely outsized sway when you look at influence to numbers of fishermen.

While it amuses me also, surely it must have been superceded by any of the several hundred thousand international agreements covering fishing in the centuries since.

1983 EU treaty about fisheries between Europe and UK.  However, that Charles II law has never been struck down by parliament and since the UK exited the EU treaty, I guess it comes back into law.

Edit:Wikipedia

20th century

In 1963, the issue of the Charter of 1666 came to the fore once more when a certain Victor Depaepe wrote to the Belgian Prime Minister, the British Prime-Minister (Harold Macmillan) and the British Queen informing them that he wished to avail himself of the rights granted under the charter of 1666. He informed them that he intended to be arrested at sea so that he could press his claim in the English courts. On 8 July his boat "'King Charles the Second" (Z.264) was intercepted by the Royal Navy off the coast of East Sussex near Seaford. The case never came before the courts and according to papers released in 1993 under the 30 year rule it became clear that the British legal team advised the British agriculture minister to avoid a court case because they considered that the Charter was still legally enforceable.

[Sheilbh]

Margaret Farrier - the SNP MP who spoke in the Commons and took two trains from London to the Borders and back with covid has decided not to resign. She's also come up with, extraordinarily, an even worse excuse than Cummings. Apparently being infected with covid "makes you do things that are out of character"

[The Brain]

Margaret Farrier - the SNP MP who spoke in the Commons and took two trains from London to the Borders and back with covid has decided not to resign. She's also come up with, extraordinarily, an even worse excuse than Cummings. Apparently being infected with covid "makes you do things that are out of character"

Covid makes you act like you're tired and emotional?

[The Minsky Moment]

Even now the Stuarts still manage to screw things up.

[Tamas]

Margaret Ferrier – the suspended SNP MP who travelled by train from London to Glasgow after a positive diagnosis of coronavirus - claims that senior SNP officials drafted her statement apologising for her rule breaches and ordered her to refer herself to the police.

Ferrier told the Sun that she felt railroaded into releasing the statement by party officials and was given just five minutes to warn family and friends that it was being released. She said:

I just felt it was very pushy. You've just been told you have Covid. You're stressed, with a lot of things going through your mind. You're wanting somebody to help you. I said at that point 'hang on a minute — as soon as this goes out am I going to be bombarded with abuse?' They were not considering the fact that I had only been diagnosed with Covid and I don't know how that's going to affect my mental state. It just went crazy. I still haven't looked at Twitter, but I have heard about it.

Yesterday, Ferrier told the Sun on Sunday that she "panicked" after receiving the positive test result in her Westminster office after speaking in the Commons, and insisted that she would not resign, despite cross-party calls for her to step down.

She is setting the record straigh on who is the REAL victim of her merrily railroading around the country as a living bag of a pandemic virus.