Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[garbon]

Are the Tories trying to position Rishi Sunak as the successor of Johnson?
Seeing a lot of posts around lately about how awesome he is, cheaper beer is all totally from him, etc...
Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge.

Why would he be "nominally" in charge as a Prime Minister just because he's Asian? Because he's brown he won't have the balls to lead or any agency of his own?  Perhaps you ought to reflect on whether you have your own biases.

If Sunak becomes leader of the Tories he would have been in the top 2 for Tory MPs and beaten his opponent in a vote of Tory members. He won't have been installed by some puppet master, he will have his won mandate.

He is impressive both objectively and in comparison to the useless shower that surrounds him. However, so far he's just had to announce giveaways and is lucky that the Treasury is by some distance the best functioning Govt Dept. We'll see how he does when he's announcing cuts or tax rises.

I don't think he's been that impressive at all, only by comparison.

Also, Boris's race has nothing to do why Boris is only nominally PM.

[Sheilbh]

He is impressive both objectively and in comparison to the useless shower that surrounds him. However, so far he's just had to announce giveaways and is lucky that the Treasury is by some distance the best functioning Govt Dept. We'll see how he does when he's announcing cuts or tax rises.

That's fair. But I think basic competence is going to be a really good/appealing brand especially when you're in government with, say, Gavin Williamson and Matt Hancock. I think especially a Chancellor can improve their position cutting spending/raising taxes if they look like they know what they're doing.

[Sheilbh]

No way is he making a bid now. Suicidal. He has to wait until Boris resigns (following some shocking event that even he can't get away with) or the sharks are circling because of low poll ratings and a looming election. That isn't now, not even close.

He's building his brand/base now. But it feels very plausible the Tories won't have Johnson in charge at the next.

[Gups]

Are the Tories trying to position Rishi Sunak as the successor of Johnson?
Seeing a lot of posts around lately about how awesome he is, cheaper beer is all totally from him, etc...
Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge.

Why would he be "nominally" in charge as a Prime Minister just because he's Asian? Because he's brown he won't have the balls to lead or any agency of his own?  Perhaps you ought to reflect on whether you have your own biases.

If Sunak becomes leader of the Tories he would have been in the top 2 for Tory MPs and beaten his opponent in a vote of Tory members. He won't have been installed by some puppet master, he will have his won mandate.

He is impressive both objectively and in comparison to the useless shower that surrounds him. However, so far he's just had to announce giveaways and is lucky that the Treasury is by some distance the best functioning Govt Dept. We'll see how he does when he's announcing cuts or tax rises.

I don't think he's been that impressive at all, only by comparison.

Also, Boris's race has nothing to do why Boris is only nominally PM.

If Boris is only nominally PM it's because he chooses to be.

[Gups]

No way is he making a bid now. Suicidal. He has to wait until Boris resigns (following some shocking event that even he can't get away with) or the sharks are circling because of low poll ratings and a looming election. That isn't now, not even close.

He's building his brand/base now. But it feels very plausible the Tories won't have Johnson in charge at the next.

Agree (but which politician isn't building his or her brand/base?). I'd give decent odds that Johnson won't fight the next election but 4.5 years is a long time in politics and luck and timing are the most important factors so who knows who will replace him.

[garbon]

Are the Tories trying to position Rishi Sunak as the successor of Johnson?
Seeing a lot of posts around lately about how awesome he is, cheaper beer is all totally from him, etc...
Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge.

Why would he be "nominally" in charge as a Prime Minister just because he's Asian? Because he's brown he won't have the balls to lead or any agency of his own?  Perhaps you ought to reflect on whether you have your own biases.

If Sunak becomes leader of the Tories he would have been in the top 2 for Tory MPs and beaten his opponent in a vote of Tory members. He won't have been installed by some puppet master, he will have his won mandate.

He is impressive both objectively and in comparison to the useless shower that surrounds him. However, so far he's just had to announce giveaways and is lucky that the Treasury is by some distance the best functioning Govt Dept. We'll see how he does when he's announcing cuts or tax rises.

I don't think he's been that impressive at all, only by comparison.

Also, Boris's race has nothing to do why Boris is only nominally PM.

If Boris is only nominally PM it's because he chooses to be.

Perhaps but it still is a counterpoint to the notion that winning a Tory leadership election means that you don't have a puppet master.

[Sheilbh]

Perhaps but it still is a counterpoint to the notion that winning a Tory leadership election means that you don't have a puppet master.

I don't think Johnson has a puppet-master. He's a lazy fucker who likes to outsource lots of work to Gove and Cummings. If he decided he wanted to actually govern he could fire them immediately and it wouldn't cause some Tory riot.

[garbon]

Perhaps but it still is a counterpoint to the notion that winning a Tory leadership election means that you don't have a puppet master.

I don't think Johnson has a puppet-master. He's a lazy fucker who likes to outsource lots of work to Gove and Cummings. If he decided he wanted to actually govern he could fire them immediately and it wouldn't cause some Tory riot.

If so, why not fire Cummings and then outsource that work to someone else?

[Josquius]

Are the Tories trying to position Rishi Sunak as the successor of Johnson?
Seeing a lot of posts around lately about how awesome he is, cheaper beer is all totally from him, etc...
Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge.

Why would he be "nominally" in charge as a Prime Minister just because he's Asian? Because he's brown he won't have the balls to lead or any agency of his own?  Perhaps you ought to reflect on whether you have your own biases.

Where are you getting this from? Who said anything about being nominally in charge because he is asian? :/

If Sunak becomes leader of the Tories he would have been in the top 2 for Tory MPs and beaten his opponent in a vote of Tory members. He won't have been installed by some puppet master, he will have his won mandate.

I know very little about him and what shifty links he has. Nonetheless the stuff coming out about him seems to be coming from the same place as the pro Mogg and pro Johnson rhetoric of recent years. I see no sign of him being so much stronger than Johnson that he can dominate the party.

[Gups]

Perhaps but it still is a counterpoint to the notion that winning a Tory leadership election means that you don't have a puppet master.

Even if it were true (and it isn't for the reasons Sheilbh gives), Tyr's argument was that Sunak would only win because of his (unnamed) puppetmasters able to manipulate Tory MPs and members into voting for an Asian purely for the purposes of disguising Tory xenophobia (although Sunak was born and bred in the UK so entirely unclear how his election would have any relevance). If your counterpoint were to stand any kind of scrunity you woudl have to demonstrate that Johnson won the election because Cummings was able to manipulate the Tory party into voting for him.

[Sheilbh]

If so, why not fire Cummings and then outsource that work to someone else?

Because he backs Cummings/Gove?

In a bigger sense I don't think Johnson has any idea what to do for or after Brexit - he's not a politician with a huge policy agenda he's always wanted to implement. Cummings and Gove give him that and I think that's Cummings' value to him. He has ideas while Johnson's fundamentally pretty empty.

It's a bit like Steve Hilton and Cameron and I imagine may end the same way.

[Gups]

Are the Tories trying to position Rishi Sunak as the successor of Johnson?
Seeing a lot of posts around lately about how awesome he is, cheaper beer is all totally from him, etc...
Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge.

Why would he be "nominally" in charge as a Prime Minister just because he's Asian? Because he's brown he won't have the balls to lead or any agency of his own?  Perhaps you ought to reflect on whether you have your own biases.

Where are you getting this from? Who said anything about being nominally in charge because he is asian? :/

You. What else could you possibly have meant by

"Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge."

[Tamas]

If so, why not fire Cummings and then outsource that work to someone else?

Because he backs Cummings/Gove?

In a bigger sense I don't think Johnson has any idea what to do for or after Brexit - he's not a politician with a huge policy agenda he's always wanted to implement. Cummings and Gove give him that and I think that's Cummings' value to him. He has ideas while Johnson's fundamentally pretty empty.

It's a bit like Steve Hilton and Cameron and I imagine may end the same way.

Without the whole Cummings travel disaster I would have agreed with you. But I think anyone even slightly dispensable to the government would have been let go. Cummings IS the government, for whatever reason.

[Josquius]

Are the Tories trying to position Rishi Sunak as the successor of Johnson?
Seeing a lot of posts around lately about how awesome he is, cheaper beer is all totally from him, etc...
Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge.

Why would he be "nominally" in charge as a Prime Minister just because he's Asian? Because he's brown he won't have the balls to lead or any agency of his own?  Perhaps you ought to reflect on whether you have your own biases.

Where are you getting this from? Who said anything about being nominally in charge because he is asian? :/

You. What else could you possibly have meant by

"Also would make a handy cover for their increasing xenophobia to have an Asian nominally in charge."

Surely this isn't the first time you've heard people imply Cummings is the true prime minister?

[garbon]

Perhaps but it still is a counterpoint to the notion that winning a Tory leadership election means that you don't have a puppet master.

Even if it were true (and it isn't for the reasons Sheilbh gives), Tyr's argument was that Sunak would only win because of his (unnamed) puppetmasters able to manipulate Tory MPs and members into voting for an Asian purely for the purposes of disguising Tory xenophobia (although Sunak was born and bred in the UK so entirely unclear how his election would have any relevance). If your counterpoint were to stand any kind of scrunity you woudl have to demonstrate that Johnson won the election because Cummings was able to manipulate the Tory party into voting for him.

Yes, I think you made the mistake of thinking Tyr was making a racial comment (i.e. an asian could only be a token) and that's not what he meant.