Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Admiral Yi]

Bit of a lawyer's trick, that.

A fourth then.  Only fair to hold a fourth.

[Richard Hakluyt]

One interesting point is displayed on the 1975 results map; the strongest pro-EU areas are almost the inverse of the 2016 situation; with London and Scotland more sceptical than the average. Forty years is a long time and that referendum was pre-Thatcher, a very different era.

[Josquius]

Yes. 1988 is the key year in terms of the UK in the EU. Thats when Jacques Delors made his speech to the TUC, Thatcher angrily followed up with Bruges, and the left and right completely switched sides on the issue and the modern brexit movement was founded.

Scottish nationalism of course is another weird factor in things.
I really believe there that Scotland is so pro EU because the SNP have succesfully turned their ignorants' hatred towards England as part of a nice moderate big tent social democratic party, whilst in England our nationalists are swallowed up by the far right and turned towards hating Europe.

[The Larch]

Image of the night? Future Labour campaign poster?

[Tamas]

What a fucking twat.

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/04/brexit-crisis-boris-johnson-mps-bill-blocking-no-deal-eu-no-deal-parliament-politics-live

Rees-Mogg's 'arrogant' speech cost government four extra votes, says Tory rebel
Turning back to Jacob Rees-Mogg, it has emerged that he single-handedly managed to push the size of the rebellion last night over the 20 mark. In an interview with the Today programme's Ross Hawkins, Guto Bebb, one of the most prominent rebels, said that Rees-Mogg's speech helped to persuade four MPs to join him in voting against the government. Bebb said:

There were at least four individuals who were still doubtful who changed their position to being supportive and voting with us on the back of Jacob's performance. He was deemed to be arrogant, out of touch and I think the way in which he treated some of the interventions was a red rag to bull in many cases.

Mogg is getting most publicity this morning for his unusual posture on the Treasury bench. (See 6.37am.) Last night the government was, quite literally, flat on its back. But the picture has distracted attention from his speech which, even by Rees-Mogg's standards, was unusually pompous, as well as peevish and at times offensive. You can read the highlights on last night's blog here.

Referenced blurb from Mogg:

The approach taken today is the most unconstitutional use of this house since the days of Charles Stewart Parnell when he tried to bung up parliament.

Usurping the executive's right is unconstitutional, the use of emergency debates to do so is unconstitutional and the bill itself is yet more unconstitutional

Sovereignty comes from the people to parliament, it does not come to parliament out of a void. If parliament tries to challenge the people, this stretches the elastic of our constitution near to breaking point.

We should recognise that the people are our masters and show us to be their lieges and servants, not to place ourselves in the position of their overlords. As we come to vote today, I hope all members will contemplate the current constitutional confusion and consider the chaos this concatenation of circumstances could create.

[garbon]

Theresa May leaving the Houses of the Parliament last night.

[Solmyr]

[The Larch]

Brexit minister complains EU has offered no solutions to Irish backstop

Protip: Propose a solution yourself, you bellend.

[Tamas]

I guess Johnson is growing desperate, he seems to be reaching back to the red bus claims, just saying in Parliament Corbyn wants to waste 1 billion pounds a month from October, keeping us in the EU.

[The Larch]

What will the UK government officially ration first in 2019

    5.0 Fuel
    10.0 Milk
    14.0 Bread
    14.0 Olive Oil
    14.0 Cheese
    18.0 Coffee
    18.0 Butter
    18.0 Beef
    12.0 Avocado
    20.0 Tomatoes
    20.0 Fish
    25.0 Red Wine
    25.0 White wine
    25.0 Pork
    25.0 Gin
    25.0 Chicken
    50.0 Magnum Ice Creams
    50.0 Champagne
    50.0 Prosecco
    50.0 Mars Bars

[garbon]

What will the UK government officially ration first in 2019

    5.0 Fuel
    10.0 Milk
    14.0 Bread
    14.0 Olive Oil
    14.0 Cheese
    18.0 Coffee
    18.0 Butter
    18.0 Beef
    12.0 Avocado
    20.0 Tomatoes
    20.0 Fish
    25.0 Red Wine
    25.0 White wine
    25.0 Pork
    25.0 Gin
    25.0 Chicken
    50.0 Magnum Ice Creams
    50.0 Champagne
    50.0 Prosecco
    50.0 Mars Bars

Now, now. Context is critical for that. Just bookmakers.

[Legbiter]

Elections are tricky, even if Johnson gets his wish he may end up in the same situation May found herself in with a hung parliament.

[Tamas]

Prime Minister Questions - Snap verdict
PMQs has never been one of the enlightened features of our political debate. It is a shouting match all too frequently dominated by slogans, displays of machismo and cheap jokes. But even prime ministers who have been most comfortable in such a crude and brutal arena, such as David Cameron, have also acknowledged that they have been under some obligations to answer questions and address matters of policy and detail, and that while insults can get you through some of the time, they won't work on their own.

Today it feels as if PMQs has become even more diminished, because in his first appearance in this arena Johnson seems to show no interest whatsoever in addressing the issue at hand. He has probably set a new record for dodging questions - he did not even half-answer them, as Theresa May frequently did - and instead he seemed intend on using the entire session to road-test some election slogans - principally his claim that Corbyn is championing a "surrender bill", and that he is scared of a general election.

Johnson was also even more dishonest then usual. Corbyn said that Michael Gove told Andrew Marr that food prices would go up in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Johnson claimed Gove said no such thing. But here is the quote. Asked if food prices would go up, Gove said:

Some prices may go up. Other prices will come down.

Corbyn focused on a no-deal Brexit, and the government's refusal to publish details of its Operation Yellowhammer assessment. He was dignified and forensic, and grown up in a way that put Johnson to shame. Although Tory MPs were cheering Johnson enthusiastically, they must have know then.

And yet, those Johnson slogans sounded not just rehearsed, but tested. Will they resonate with the public at large? Who knows, but it is not impossible.

[The Larch]

What will the UK government officially ration first in 2019

    5.0 Fuel
    10.0 Milk
    14.0 Bread
    14.0 Olive Oil
    14.0 Cheese
    18.0 Coffee
    18.0 Butter
    18.0 Beef
    12.0 Avocado
    20.0 Tomatoes
    20.0 Fish
    25.0 Red Wine
    25.0 White wine
    25.0 Pork
    25.0 Gin
    25.0 Chicken
    50.0 Magnum Ice Creams
    50.0 Champagne
    50.0 Prosecco
    50.0 Mars Bars

Now, now. Context is critical for that. Just bookmakers.

Woops, I meant to include the link to the bookies but forgot.