Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

crazy canuck

Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 09:55:06 AM
Quote from: Saladin on August 28, 2019, 09:31:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 09:23:38 AM
The Queen has given her consent.  :huh:

I don't see what else she could do.

She has just agreed to send Parliament home for FIVE WEEKS during quite possibly the most critical period of British history since the Suez Crisis, or even WW2.

She either agrees with the goal of this action, namely to remove Parliament as the sovereign entity to make the critical decisions that need to be made, or she is an uninterested figurehead with far less power than any heads of states I can think of.

Or she is doing what she is constitutionally bound to do. 

If the Queen did otherwise today really would have been the day parliamentary democracy in the UK died.

Parliament can still act.  They just need to get their shit together over the weekend.  The real problem is the parliamentarians opposed to Boris can't seem to be able to do that.

Josquius

The entire point of the queen still existing is as a safeguard against attempts to subvert democracy. This is precisely the time where she should have done more than just nod everything through.
Republicanism has suddenly gained a major positive argument.
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Tamas

Quote from: Tyr on August 28, 2019, 10:59:39 AM
The entire point of the queen still existing is as a safeguard against attempts to subvert democracy. This is precisely the time where she should have done more than just nod everything through.
Republicanism has suddenly gained a major positive argument.

Exactly.

Valmy

I think the opposition needs to find a compromise position they can agree on first, right? If a Soft Brexit policy is what is needed to get a majority on board the Remainers need to recognize that is the lesser of many evils.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

crazy canuck

Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 10:47:44 AM
Quote from: frunk on August 28, 2019, 10:13:15 AM
Parliament still has the option of a no confidence vote, so they aren't completely powerless.  Johnson is daring them to make him the shortest serving PM.

Allegedly No.10's plan for that is to NOT resign but call an election for first week of November instead.

Well, Boris does't actually call the election, the Queen is the one who dissolves parliament after a vote of non confidence and calls for a new general election.  But that is her last option.  She could also name a new government if another group of parliamentarians could convince her that they have the confidence of parliament.  But that would require more skill than the present group has I am afraid.

Oexmelin

Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 10:49:35 AM

Anyway the situation in Britain makes me feel relieved we only have Donald Trump.

It's a big mistake to think that.
Que le grand cric me croque !

crazy canuck

Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 11:00:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 28, 2019, 10:59:39 AM
The entire point of the queen still existing is as a safeguard against attempts to subvert democracy. This is precisely the time where she should have done more than just nod everything through.
Republicanism has suddenly gained a major positive argument.

Exactly.

Is there some source for this constitutional role.  I am not familiar with it.

Valmy

Quote from: Oexmelin on August 28, 2019, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 10:49:35 AM

Anyway the situation in Britain makes me feel relieved we only have Donald Trump.

It's a big mistake to think that.

I was kidding.

But at this point the Democrats at least have control of the House. No such check currently exists on Boris Johnson.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tamas

Out of desperation I guess, but I am trying to convince myself that I just should not care. My job is not dependant on EU membership, and if anything, can only benefit from the UK becoming a US vassal state.

Let all the Leave-voting production sector workers and unemployed enjoy the shittorm they have requested.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 11:07:09 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 28, 2019, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 10:49:35 AM

Anyway the situation in Britain makes me feel relieved we only have Donald Trump.

It's a big mistake to think that.

I was kidding.

But at this point the Democrats at least have control of the House. No such check currently exists on Boris Johnson.

Boris does not actually control a majority of Parliament.  It is just that the parliamentarians who oppose him also oppose eachother.  You are stuck with a Senate that fully supports Trump.

Valmy

Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2019, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 11:07:09 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 28, 2019, 11:02:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 10:49:35 AM

Anyway the situation in Britain makes me feel relieved we only have Donald Trump.

It's a big mistake to think that.

I was kidding.

But at this point the Democrats at least have control of the House. No such check currently exists on Boris Johnson.

Boris does not actually control a majority of Parliament.  It is just that the parliamentarians who oppose him also oppose eachother.  You are stuck with a Senate that fully supports Trump.

In a parliamentary system he is still basically empowered to do whatever.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tamas

Especially when there is no constitution to hold him back, and the head of state is a powerless figurehead.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on August 28, 2019, 11:29:03 AM
In a parliamentary system he is still basically empowered to do whatever.

?

I just explained one of the ways he does not

Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2019, 11:01:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 10:47:44 AM
Quote from: frunk on August 28, 2019, 10:13:15 AM
Parliament still has the option of a no confidence vote, so they aren't completely powerless.  Johnson is daring them to make him the shortest serving PM.

Allegedly No.10's plan for that is to NOT resign but call an election for first week of November instead.

Well, Boris does't actually call the election, the Queen is the one who dissolves parliament after a vote of non confidence and calls for a new general election.  But that is her last option.  She could also name a new government if another group of parliamentarians could convince her that they have the confidence of parliament.  But that would require more skill than the present group has I am afraid.

Tamas

Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2019, 11:43:29 AM

I just explained one of the ways he does not


We just saw the Queen will do whatever she is told to do.

A more interesting issue with a snap election, apparently, is that the Fixed Term Parliament Act (or somesuch) makes it necessary to have a 2/3rd majority to call one. So Boris will need Corbyn to play ball. But I am sure he will.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Tamas on August 28, 2019, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2019, 11:43:29 AM

I just explained one of the ways he does not


We just saw the Queen will do whatever she is told to do.

A more interesting issue with a snap election, apparently, is that the Fixed Term Parliament Act (or somesuch) makes it necessary to have a 2/3rd majority to call one. So Boris will need Corbyn to play ball. But I am sure he will.

There is a distinction between what the Queen has discretion to do and when she has no discretion.  She has no discretion when the PM asks her to prorogue Parliament.  She does have discretion over whether to call a general election if there is a viable alternative that has the confidence of Parliament.