Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Minsky Moment]

Well I think it isn't hard to believe that anyone who voted for Brexit didn't want same EU rules but no say for Britain.

It's quite possible that's what they wanted, in fact one could argue that is what many wanted from revealed preference.

IIRC there was no clear majority preference among Brexit voters for their reasons to vote exit other than the idea of being a separate and "sovereign" nation that is not in the EU.

At the same time the British people don't seem to want to leave the single market or give up other significant advantages of Europe.

The only way to get both is to leave the EU treaties while still agreeing, as a now independent and sovereign nation free of entaglements, to abide by EU rules nonetheless.

[Valmy]

Well I think it isn't hard to believe that anyone who voted for Brexit didn't want same EU rules but no say for Britain.

Not necessarily, at the time people were saying they wanted a Norway type arrangement and that is exactly that: EU rules but no say.

[The Minsky Moment]

Also, if you want to make major constitutional decisions by referendum, you can't really complain about illogical results . . .

[Tamas]

Minsky this cannot be lawyered. If somebody voted Leave, they didn't do so because they thought everything should remain the same except the UK should not have any more say in the rules they will have to live by. This can be declared with absolute certainty.

In my understanding, this agreement says "the UK will be like Norway until some other solution is agreed upon".

[Josquius]

So...Britain remains in the EU in all but name and voting rights?
TBH I could live with that.

Minsky this cannot be lawyered. If somebody voted Leave, they didn't do so because they thought everything should remain the same except the UK should not have any more say in the rules they will have to live by. This can be declared with absolute certainty.

In my understanding, this agreement says "the UK will be like Norway until some other solution is agreed upon".

A lot of them certainly did do it however with an eye towards Norway and Switzerland's situations.
Of course a lot of these were in turn ignorant about what that entailed...but hey-ho.

[Tamas]

Well I think it isn't hard to believe that anyone who voted for Brexit didn't want same EU rules but no say for Britain.

Not necessarily, at the time people were saying they wanted a Norway type arrangement and that is exactly that: EU rules but no say.

Uhm, no. Nobody said that. Remainers wanted to remain, and Leavers wanted to remain in the single market and the customs union while being free of any and all EU obligations.

[Valmy]

Well I think it isn't hard to believe that anyone who voted for Brexit didn't want same EU rules but no say for Britain.

Not necessarily, at the time people were saying they wanted a Norway type arrangement and that is exactly that: EU rules but no say.

Uhm, no. Nobody said that. Remainers wanted to remain, and Leavers wanted to remain in the single market and the customs union while being free of any and all EU obligations.

My mistake then. I clearly remember that being thrown around.

[mongers]

Things could come to ahead by the end of the weekend.

Looks like at least one of the cabinet members who all backed the PM on the deal will renege on agreement and resign; at least Ester McVey (no loss there) possible another.

Apparently some more letters from Troy MPs have gone in, asking for a vote of no confidence in May, so a leadership contest is possible; at what point does Rees-Mogg let slip his dogs of the 'European Research Group' and set them off in pursuit of the leadership?

Meanwhile Mr Corbyn and allies have gone very, very quiet. It's rumoured they plan a walking holiday in the Peak district, until such time as they need to vote down the government.

Meanwhile the DUP's blood is up, bubbling with righteous fury that not everyone is putting God's own plantation above everything else.


Oddly, I wish may the best of luck trying to square this circle.

[ulmont]

Apparently some more letters from Troy MPs have gone in, asking for a vote of no confidence in May, so a leadership contest is possible

What is the record for highest number of governments brought down by a single affair (and does the answer change if you exclude the World Wars)?

[mongers]

Apparently some more letters from Troy MPs have gone in, asking for a vote of no confidence in May, so a leadership contest is possible

What is the record for highest number of governments brought down by a single affair (and does the answer change if you exclude the World Wars)?

I don't there is one. If a government falls over an affair, that's it's resolution.

The Tory parties relationship with the EU is less of an affair, more an irresolvable problem at it's core, that could break the party up.

[Gups]

Apparently some more letters from Troy MPs have gone in, asking for a vote of no confidence in May, so a leadership contest is possible

What is the record for highest number of governments brought down by a single affair (and does the answer change if you exclude the World Wars)?

So far brexit hasn't brought down any governments although a PM resigned.

[garbon]

Would be nice if she could stem tide. Having Raab out after his resignation this morning is pleasing.

[Tamas]

Would be nice if she could stem tide. Having Raab out after his resignation this morning is pleasing.

That guy looks like a serial killer.

[Tamas]

So, I am really at two-minds about the universal feeling of let-down about this deal.

Leavers I get. Their face was just smashed in by reality, after trying to dance around it for years.

Remainers? I get how they feel this is worse than staying but we've known since the referendum result, that the UK's power and status are going to be downgraded, the only question was if the economy will go with them.

And as I understand, this deal says, that as long as a proper trade deal is not constructed, the UK will be like Norway, minus free movement. Is that really such a bad thing, considering the alternatives?

[garbon]

Agreed. I guess the only thing is a hope that UK can scrap Brexit altogether on part of the Remainers? Otherwise, this seems like the best option of all exit worlds.