Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

Plenty of British business, some national institutions are Jewish in origin and I've never heard anyone express resentment against them. For instance Marks and Spencers, a cornerstone of retailing, various British cultural memes associated with it like M&S underwear, pyjamas etc. Much liked and generally know to be have Jewish foundations, which in this context is seen as a positive re quality and jewish people in the rag trade nothing their stuff etc.


edit:
Oh and our two largest food retailers, Tesco and Sainsbury's have Jewish founders and I've never heard or read anything that could be seen as anti-Semitism directed against the companies.

Though, to be fair thats the main thing about Jews in the UK. Its just not something we think about at all. They're so integrated that not many realise prominent figures are/were Jews.
Being catholic is traditionally far more of an issue than being a Jew.

[garbon]

Maybe. Though at same time most people I know in London have a very low knowledge of Jewish customs compared to say people in New York. I got asked if I have a membership to the Jewish centre when I said I go there on Tuesday eves for the cheap cinema. A colleague told me a new hire was going to work from home on Fridays so she could celebrate Hanukkah. And this in a city that also has a sizable minority of Hasidic Jews.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'll never understand how liberals seem to be fine with trade and relationships with many of the world's worst autocracies, but chooses to focus so much ire on Israel.

[Syt]

A colleague told me a new hire was going to work from home on Fridays so she could celebrate Hanukkah.

Well, Hannukah is the most impolrtant meal of the day.

[crazy canuck]

I'll never understand how liberals seem to be fine with trade and relationships with many of the world's worst autocracies, but chooses to focus so much ire on Israel.

Who are you including in your definition of "liberals"

[Zanza]

[...]But echoing the language of Theresa May on her goals for Brexit, Barnier responded: "Maintaining control of our money, law and borders also applies to the EU customs policy. The EU cannot and will not delegate the application of its customs policy and rules, VAT and duty collection to a non-member who would not be subject to the EU governance structures.

"Any customs arrangements or customs union – and I have always said that the EU is open to a customs union – must respect this principle."

Moments earlier, Barnier had struck a warmer note by saying he was "particularly pleased" with the progress of talks on foreign policy and security. But he added: "On our future economic relationship, it comes as no surprise that finding common ground between the EU27 and the UK is more difficult."

Raab, in his second appearance in Brussels since he replaced David Davis in the cabinet, claimed in response that the EU needed to display some of the creativity it had applied in the past.

He said: "We have designed our proposals both to respect the result of the referendum, and the core principles of the EU. We have considered the innovative approaches the EU has taken in the past with other third countries – when the political will has been there."[...]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/26/michel-barnier-tears-up-theresa-mays-brexit-customs-proposals

So May's custom proposal is dead as the EU cannot accept it. Not sure if they can still square the circle.

There are other points on which we have a problem because they contradict, they clash with, the European Council guidelines. They contradict my clear negotiating guidelines. Indivisibility of the four freedoms, the integrity of the single market, these are key points. This is our main asset. We are not going to negotiate on that. The United Kingdom has know that from the outset.

So cherry-picking the single market for goods also seems to be dead for the EU.

[Josquius]

The Daily Telegraph, March 2016:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12180466/Leaving-the-EU-wont-actually-change-Britain-much-at-first-anyway.html

Remain campaigners unrealistically base every argument they make on the worst-case scenario, yet eurosceptics seem intent on assisting them by adopting positions beyond the realms of political reality, such as falling back on the WTO and a no-deal with the EU.

Instantly the no deal plans of eurosceptics would give way to the Civil Service, who would take charge. Civil Service analysis will be clear on the fact that Brexit is complex and risky if bungled.

It will be abundantly clear that by far the most optimal way of de-risking Brexit is to rejoin the European Free Trade Agreement and trade with the EU via the European Economic Area. As we are already a contracting party to the EEA Agreement there is no serious obstacle; this is the path of least resistance. It means there would be no regulatory divergence or tariffs and it means retaining freedom of movement. Business and trade would be unaffected and Britons would still have the freedom to live and work in EEA countries.

It is not difficult to imagine members of the Conservative Party such as Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg cheering to the rafters of the House, uniting behind this plan that protects our economic and national security. Coming together as one they will handle our transition pragmatically and present a strong, united front for 2020.

Repealing the 1972 European Communities Act and falling back on World Trade Organisation rules would be politically and economically catastrophic and will not be countenanced. Food and medical supplies would be severely impacted. Leaving the EU via Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is the only legal and feasible method which obliges the EU to negotiate a settlement. A bespoke trade agreement cannot be negotiated in the two years stipulated and wouldn't replicate the benefits of Single Market membership anyway.

To conclude an agreement, the government will adopt the same strategy as Sir Con O'Neill, a senior British diplomat used when he was the lead negotiator for Britain's entry to the European Economic Community in 1972. That strategy was to "swallow the lot, and swallow it now" (I.E. Agree to anything the EU gives us, we can fix it later)

Forty years of integration cannot be undone instantly. Brexit would be a staged process over 10, not an event. Like most newly-independent nations we would retain the body of law and avoid unravelling treaties in order to minimise disruption.

[crazy canuck]

So much for de-risking 

[Zanza]

But then came the red lines...

[The Brain]

I'll never understand how liberals seem to be fine with trade and relationships with many of the world's worst autocracies, but chooses to focus so much ire on Israel.

Yes it's amusing. In Sweden, if you go to the right you need to go to the extreme right to find antisemitism. To the left it's very common already in the mainstream. Of course they would deny it, it is of course a complete coincidence that they passionately hate Israel and international financiers.

[Admiral Yi]

So are the Juden papers saying that "Zionist bitch" is unacceptable?  I'm not quite getting their point.

[crazy canuck]

As much as I dislike Corbyn, and as much as I do not doubt for a second that the left, in the UK especially, is choke full of antisemites, I find this anti-Corbyn campaign to be reeking from sweat. Just feels horribly forced and out of proportions.

Besides, it's like accusing Trump of being a rude misogynist and expecting his followers to desert him. That's the bloody reason they like him in the first place.

Interesting view.  But not entirely consistent with the facts. Labour supporters have voiced concerns about antisemitism under Corbyn.  Here is an article from March about one such incident.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/28/antisemitism-open-your-eyes-jeremy-corbyn-labour

[Jacob]

Having read discussions about it elsewhere, it seems to be a combination of some people relishing the opportunity to attack Corbyn, and other people being genuinely concerned about anti-semitism. Corbyn and his supporters are focusing on the first group in their strategy and as a result are significantly increasing the concerns of the second group, and thus helping the first group.

... seems like a bit of a self-inflicted wound, to be honest.

[Josquius]

I'll never understand how liberals seem to be fine with trade and relationships with many of the world's worst autocracies, but chooses to focus so much ire on Israel.

Yes it's amusing. In Sweden, if you go to the right you need to go to the extreme right to find antisemitism. To the left it's very common already in the mainstream. Of course they would deny it, it is of course a complete coincidence that they passionately hate Israel and international financiers.

Except it really is.
I'm a British leftist, I know plenty of very far left British people.
It's all about Israel. Anti-capitalism doesn't at all have an evil Jewish banker slant in the modern UK. The only place you see that sort of thing is from the far right with their massive hatred of George Soros.
I get the impression from most of these anti-zionists on the left that they're not even aware of the details of historic anti-semitism and the jews are running the world stuff.

[The Minsky Moment]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?