Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Josquius

Oh deer. Labour are really screwing themselves.
Gungho for Brexit but gungho against Trump. :wacko:
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The Minsky Moment

Good op-ed today by Janan Ganesh in the FT today - arguing the point that Brexit means subordinating all other foreign policy goals to the transactional pursuit of commercial interest.  I.e. UK no longer has the luxury of playing footsie with the Dalai Lama or tut-tutting developments in America - it has to suck up to Xi and Trump and get the best deal it can.  That's the cost of voting yourself off a powerful trade bloc with real leverage and going it alone.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

PJL

Well we were doing that with Cameron anyway. At least May has the excuse that we have no other option.

mongers

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 31, 2017, 12:01:40 PM
Good op-ed today by Janan Ganesh in the FT today - arguing the point that Brexit means subordinating all other foreign policy goals to the transactional pursuit of commercial interest.  I.e. UK no longer has the luxury of playing footsie with the Dalai Lama or tut-tutting developments in America - it has to suck up to Xi and Trump and get the best deal it can.  That's the cost of voting yourself off a powerful trade bloc with real leverage and going it alone.

Another good FT item about Brexit, this time focusing on Trumps impact on it:

Quote
January 30, 2017 by: Gideon Rachman

For the most ardent supporters of Brexit, the election of Donald Trump was a mixture of vindication and salvation. The president of the US, no less, thinks it is a great idea for Britain to leave the EU. Even better, he seems to offer an exciting escape route. The UK can leap off the rotting raft of the EU and on to the gleaming battleship HMS Anglosphere.

It is an alluring vision. Unfortunately, it is precisely wrong. The election of Mr Trump has transformed Brexit from a risky decision into a straightforward disaster. For the past 40 years, Britain has had two central pillars to its foreign policy: membership of the EU and a "special relationship" with the US.

The decision to exit the EU leaves Britain much more dependent on the US, just at a time when America has elected an unstable president opposed to most of the central propositions on which UK foreign policy is based.

......

Full item here:
https://www.ft.com/content/fde7616a-e6cf-11e6-967b-c88452263daf
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Josquius

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The Larch

Oh, the irony.

QuoteNigel Farage among Ukip MEPs accused of misusing EU funds

Eight Ukip MEPs including Paul Nuttall may be forced to repay £500,000 if they are found to have breached EU funding rules


Nigel Farage, Paul Nuttall and six other Ukip MEPs are under investigation by the European parliament for alleged misuse of funds, which could lead to repayment demands totalling £500,000.

Financial controllers are looking into eight of Ukip's 20 MEPs, who are suspected of having broken rules that ban full-time EU-funded parliamentary assistants from working for the national party.

It is understood that Farage and his fellow Ukip MEP Raymond Finch will be asked to repay around £84,000 paid to their joint assistant, Christopher Adams, who is also Ukip's national nominating officer. Adams is described as one of the party's "key people" on its website. Parliament officials have suspended Adams's contract because they are not convinced he was working as an MEP assistant.

Under EU rules, full-time MEP assistants are not allowed to do paid work for a national political party; part-time assistants need to have second jobs, paid and voluntary, vetted by European parliament authorities to prevent a conflict of interest.

Financial controllers are investigating the work of several other MEP assistants, where they suspect a conflict of interest between their EU-paid job and national party role. It is understood three of the assistants worked for Nuttall, who is vying to become Ukip's second MP in Westminster in the Stoke-on-Trent Central byelection later this month.

Each of the European parliament's 751 MEPs is entitled to €23,400 a month to pay for staff to run offices in Brussels and their home constituencies, plus a further €4,342 in office expenses. If Ukip MEPs had claimed the full allowance in 2016, the party would have gained administrative support worth €7.3m.

Farage's wife, Kirsten, is caught up in the investigation because she was paid as an MEP assistant while running her husband's office for the national party.

Kirsten Farage was named as an assistant to Finch, who represents the party in the south-east of England. He has been asked to repay more than £20,000 over her employment because the European parliament's financial controllers were not convinced she was doing real work as his assistant.

Finch employed Kirsten Farage in his constituency office to do secretarial work between 2014 and 2016. During the same period, she was full-time office manager for her husband, according to European parliament information.

Roger Helmer, a Conservative defector known for his controversial remarks on climate change and rape, faces a repayment bill of about £95,000 for employing the Ukip chairman, Paul Oakden, as his assistant. Oakden, who held the post of party director while working for Helmer, emerged into the spotlight last autumn as he sought to steady the party during the rocky period of the leadership contests to replace Farage.

One source estimated that Ukip MEPs could be asked to repay about £500,000 in EU funds if the party is shown to have broken the rules in each case currently under investigation. It is understood that the other MEPs being investigated are Jonathan Arnott, Louise Bours, James Carver and Margot Parker.

A Ukip spokesman rejected the allegations. "We have been here [as elected MEPs] since 1999 and have scrupulously applied the rules of the European parliament with very few problems. It would appear that post-Brexit there is an element of vindictiveness in the way in which the European parliament is behaving.

"We are appealing each and every one of the allegations that have been made."

Helmer, who faces the largest bill known so far, said the parliament administration had "mistakenly" got the idea that Oakden worked for him full time. "So far as I am concerned there is no case to answer – merely an administrative misunderstanding to resolve."

If MEPs refuse to repay misspent funds, parliament can withhold up to half their annual salaries (€79,332 a year after tax) and daily allowances (€52,104 a year), until the money has been recouped.

The European parliament's financial controllers began the latest checks after a separate investigation revealed that a Ukip-dominated group in the institution had misspent more than €500,000 of EU money. The Alliance for Direct Democracy in Europe, a Ukip-controlled pan-European party, was found to have spent EU funds on Nigel Farage's failed attempt to win a seat in Westminster, flouting the ban on using European money for national campaigns.

Parliament is considering extending its investigation to the 2009-14 legislature, when Ukip had 13 MEPs. The current inquiry covers the current parliament, elected in June 2014.

Ukip is not the only party accused of misspending EU money to fund its national activities. The leader of France's far-right Front National, Marine Le Pen, was last year ordered to repay €339,000, after the EU's anti-fraud office, Olaf, found she had misused EU funds following a European parliament inquiry. The French presidential hopeful had received EU funds to pay the salaries of two assistants, but the anti-fraud watchdog said the pair worked almost entirely for the national party.

The FN leader missed a deadline at midnight on Tuesday to repay the money and now faces losing half her salary and allowance. Le Pen has denied allegations of fraud and says she will not "submit to persecution" by repaying the money.

The European parliament has played a vital role in Ukip's political success, giving the Eurosceptic party a platform and funding it has never matched on the domestic stage.

A spokesperson for the European parliament declined to comment on the ongoing investigation. Olaf referred questions back to the European parliament.

Nicholas Aiossa, a campaigner at Transparency International, said the Ukip case may need to be referred to the EU anti-fraud office. "Recovery of these funds is essential, but the parliament needs to take a harder look at whether MEPs have been intentionally engaging in fraudulent activities and if so they should refer these cases to Olaf."

Liep

The Danish EU-sceptical far-right party also has to pay back hundreds of thousands euros after misuse. A pattern is emerging. :P
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

HVC

Of course they think the EU is corrupt, they're the ones corrupting it :D
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Liep

Watching the article 50 thing on Guardian and it has a live feed from the house of commons. WTF is going on. :lol: :unsure: :huh:
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Richard Hakluyt

They are voting at the moment.

Liep

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 01, 2017, 02:18:14 PM
They are voting at the moment.


By shouting? :P I gather if they can't tell the clear majority then they vote. But how have they not introduced electronic voting yet?
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Richard Hakluyt

Of course not, Putin would hack electronic voting  :D

Zanza

Meanwhile the EU agreed on abolishing roaming charges.  :) Against the opposition of Germany and France apparently.

mongers

Quote from: Zanza on February 01, 2017, 02:45:35 PM
Meanwhile the EU agreed on abolishing roaming charges.  :) Against the opposition of Germany and France apparently.

Given how badly Brexit is likely to be handled here, I fully expect the EU to be levy still roaming charges against the UK.   :bowler:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Zanza

Quote from: mongers on February 01, 2017, 02:54:06 PM
Quote from: Zanza on February 01, 2017, 02:45:35 PM
Meanwhile the EU agreed on abolishing roaming charges.  :) Against the opposition of Germany and France apparently.

Given how badly Brexit is likely to be handled here, I fully expect the EU to be levy still roaming charges against the UK.   :bowler:
As the European Common Aviation Area also stipulates oversight by the ECJ, you'll have to quit that as well, so it will likely get more expensive to fly from the UK to the continent anyway, so this is less of a concern then.