Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[crazy canuck]

When the UK falls to Farage, you can blame the Gaza left. 

I don't see how.

Farage was already polling at 30%+ (although it's four years away and we shouldn't be thinking about elections, a lot can happen, I think there'll be a lot of tactical voting etc).

At this point though, the government won a landslide majority and pissed it away. Support for and belief in both of the main parties is crashing at the same time which has not happened before (and Gaza is part of that - not the Gaza left).

Gaza is important because Pro-Pals won't shut up about it.  If they didn't it would have the same impact as Yemen, I.E. none.  I've already seen these people decide that Trump was better than Genocide Joe, the same will probably happen to you.

I know someone who won't

[Razgovory]

I admit, I'm an antifascist. No mercy for fascists.  There are people who disagree of course, some people are okay with giving fascists what they want, so long as the fascists kill the right type of people.

[Sheilbh]

I saw Starmer on Kuenssberg this morning. He seemed...not great. He avoided answering question on how digital ID would actually change anything, especially given people paid under the table. He then looked awkwardly defensive when asked about the money he spent to buy his parents extra land for donkeys. Flubbed when he said it was just 20k not some sort of palatial estate and Laura pointed out 20k is a lot to many people in the country.

On the tax thing this was briefly touched on while he was leader of the opposition (same with a few of these stories). I don't think there's much there there but that's an easier position if, in opposition, you didn't position yourself as Mr Propriety (always a hostage to fortune) - and also if you're from a fundamentally pro-paying-tax party.

I think the Croydon scandal might be one worth keeping an eye on as the Telegraph are reporting this morning that the Met have now handed over their file to CPS for prosecutors to assess. Especially as part of it involves allegations around the misuse of software (provided by a company owned by two Labour councillors in Croydon) holding members' data - which is relevant because that software was widely used in Labour selections all over the country. Also relevant that the London regional director for Labour at that point, who seemed to heavily favour a candidate (who dropped out as soon as the police investigation started) now has a job in the Treasury as "business liaison" - and many of the people involved are very close to Steve Reed who is also a Croydon MP and now Housing Secretary. May just be Croydon but might be worth keeping an eye on.

I also think there's possibly more to come on the big undeclared Labour Together donation and paying Morgan McSweeney's salary.

[crazy canuck]

I admit, I'm an antifascist. No mercy for fascists.  There are people who disagree of course, some people are okay with giving fascists what they want, so long as the fascists kill the right type of people.

Yes, but we are not talking about the US now

[Josquius]

I admit, I'm an antifascist. No mercy for fascists.  There are people who disagree of course, some people are okay with giving fascists what they want, so long as the fascists kill the right type of people.

Great to hear you've caught up with everyone remotely sane on the current Israel situation.

[Tamas]

Raz, the extent of Labour's victory (luckily a big one regardless) was influenced and was at risk by the pan-Muslim revolt over Labour not stopping the war in Gaza.

But the current lead by Reform has nothing meaningful to do with that. If in 2029 the UK will still not be at war with Israel, it might prove decisive but it is very unlikely

[Razgovory]

I admit, I'm an antifascist. No mercy for fascists.  There are people who disagree of course, some people are okay with giving fascists what they want, so long as the fascists kill the right type of people.

Yes, but we are not talking about the US now

Nah, if the US was fascist, throwing people off buildings, committing pograms, that sort of thing you'd have much more sympathy for us.

[Razgovory]

I admit, I'm an antifascist. No mercy for fascists.  There are people who disagree of course, some people are okay with giving fascists what they want, so long as the fascists kill the right type of people.

Great to hear you've caught up with everyone remotely sane on the current Israel situation.

Of course I have, you on the other hand, have not.

[HVC]

Sigh, you guys never learn.

[crazy canuck]

Sigh, you guys never learn.

True.

[Sheilbh]

Takes quite a lot for industrial action to have even me stroking my chin but really struggling with the BMA's objections (though generally - of unions - I dislike the BMA most) here.

I mean fine if the way things currently worked meant actually everyone was able to easily, smoothly and reliably reach someone at their GP's surgery and book an appointment. As it is you often can't even get through, especially if you lose the 8am race for an appointment. And I'm not really sure how it could reduce face-to-face appointments any more than where they are now

GP strike: doctors threaten walkout over online booking changes
The BMA demands that Wes Streeting scrap reforms making it easier for patients to book appointments as GPs won't be able to cope with a 'barrage of requests'
Eleanor Hayward, Health Editor
Monday September 29 2025, 12.39pm, The Times

GPs are threatening to go on strike because they oppose a government reform aimed at making it easier for patients to book an appointment.

The British Medical Association (BMA) said there were insufficient safeguards in a new requirement for online appointment booking systems at GP surgeries to be open all day, due to come into force across England on Wednesday.

The BMA's leaders have told Wes Streeting, the health secretary, that if he does not scrap the plans they will enter into a formal dispute with the government.

The union has not said what form this dispute will take, but in previous disputes GPs have pursued "work-to-rule" industrial action, where staff work only to their contracted hours, including not doing any weekend or evening appointments.

Under the change, announced by the Department of Health and Social Care in February, GP surgeries will have to keep their online consultation tool open throughout working hours for non-urgent appointment requests, medication queries and admin requests.

Streeting said: "It is absurd that in 2025 many patients can't request appointments online. If you can book a hair appointment online, you should be able to book an NHS appointment too. Many GPs are already offering this service, and now it will be provided to patients across the country.

"This move — which the BMA agreed to — will support GPs to care for their patients who need non-urgent care. We have agreed clear safeguards, where patients will be directed to phone up or attend in person for urgent appointments. The BMA knows this.

"This extra service for patients comes alongside extra investment in general practice as we deliver on our plan for change. We've invested an extra £1.1 billion in general practice — the biggest increase in over a decade — and hired 2,000 extra GPs across England. Patient satisfaction with their GPs is on the up. We must work together to keep this momentum going.

"This government will always put the interests of patients first, and we will not stand for our NHS being held back in the analogue age."

In February, officials said the move would be "subject to necessary safeguards in place to avoid urgent clinical requests being erroneously submitted online".

However, the BMA said that these safeguards had not been put in place and no additional staff had been brought in to manage what it predicted would be a "barrage of online requests".

There are fears the change could lead to "hospital-style waiting lists in general practice" and "reduce face-to-face GP appointments".

The BMA said that this could risk patient safety as staff tried to determine the most urgent cases from a large volume of online requests.

Before the Labour Party conference in Liverpool, Dr Katie Bramall-Stainer, chair of the BMA's GP committee, said: "We agreed to these changes on the condition that 'necessary safeguards' would be put in place before Wednesday, October 1.

"This was agreed — in writing — with government, DHSC, and [NHS England] in February this year. Now almost eight months later, it is deeply disappointing to see promises broken. We have worked incredibly hard to rebuild the trust between our exhausted profession and the government, but now what are England's GPs and practice teams supposed to think?

"The secretary of state knows that when these changes come into effect it will likely lead to the creation of hospital-style waiting lists in general practice, reduce face-to-face GP appointments — as we'll be triaging a barrage of online requests, consequently putting patients at risk of harm as we try to find the urgent cases among the huge pile of unmet patient need that's out there.

"Mr Streeting needs to listen to us and understand how we believe GPs can deliver his ambitions safely. General practice is the leader in NHS tech innovation. We do everything online from systems to prescriptions, referrals and appointments.

"We're not resistant to change but we will be when the safety of patients and practice staff is at risk. The government has 48 hours to change course, avoid this dispute, and keep to their promises."

[Sheilbh]

From the game thread - turns out Imgur isn't Online Safety Act (though that's increased the exposure). Statement from the ICO today to do with normal data protection rules noting that they'd launched an investigation into MediaLab AI Inc earlier in this year (as well as an investigation into TikTok):

"We reached our provisional findings on this investigation, and we issued a notice of intent to impose a monetary penalty on MediaLab on 10 September 2025. 

    "Our findings are provisional and the ICO will carefully consider any representations from MediaLab before taking a final decision whether to issue a monetary penalty. 

    "We have been clear that exiting the UK does not allow an organisation to avoid responsibility for any prior infringement of data protection law, and our investigation remains ongoing.

    "This update has been provided to give clarity on our investigation, and we will not be providing any further detail at this time. 

    "Safeguarding children's personal information is a key priority for the ICO and our Children's code strategy outlines our key interventions in this area. Keeping children safe online is the responsibility of the companies offering online services to them and we will continue to hold them to account."

Interesting point that it's under the Children's Code as that's been basically cut and paste into California law

[Tamas]

I like of what I have heard and read of Starmer's speech. I think it is helped by the fact that ultimately, it is true: Reform, and the centrist view Labour represent, they ARE different ways of looking at the world, and people need to decide which one they want.

I am afraid they are going to go with the hate-filled one since it's easier (not sure where I read it but it's spot on: all Reform and their ilk ask of you is that you hate, everything else is to be sorted automatically), but still, the choice is real.


I also like them starting to call The Boats Farage Boats, on account of there being much more of them since Brexit. I hope they keep with it and don't abandon it after a month like the Democrats did with the "weird" thing.

[Josquius]

Farage's reaction
The headline is bad enough, pearl clutching and whinging about someone else whipping up hate.
Look at the actual words though and he's just ripped a maga speech, going on about Charlie Kirk and Antifa.
This is really a key possible area of attack.

I've heard it said a key difference between Corbyn and Farage is that Corbyn cannot have anyone to the left of him whilst Farage thrives off having people right of him so he can present himself as the moderate.
But Farage's Trump and Moscow links are strong...

I caught up with an old friend from school the other day. He mentioned his elderly parents are definitely reform leaning but refuse to ever vote that way because Farage lives up Trump's arse. I don't think this kind of person is abnormal. We've seen in the past the more Farage gets tied to Trump the more damaging it is for him.

And yes. I do love Farage Boats. It works on so many levels. Both on brexit/tighter borders being a natural cause of them, and on them being a bit of a figment of his imagination, a petty problem that will be solved and is distracting from bigger issues.

Reform and Labour different ways of viewing the world....more could be made of this. It applies for the hate and tolerance thing. But even more so it applies for their views on the world.  Farage and co represent rats on a sinking ship. Squabbling over what few resources there are. The world can never be a better place. You just have to make sure you get the biggest share of what pie there is.
Labour should really be embracing more of the New Labour energy that things actually can be better. We don't need to fight over dwindling resources. We can bake more pies.

[Tamas]

Reform and Labour different ways of viewing the world....more could be made for this. It applies for the hate and tolerance thing. But even more so it applies for their views on the world.  Farage and co represent rats on a sinking ship. Squabbling over what few resources there are. The world can never be a better place. You just have to make sure you get the biggest share of what pie there is.
Labour should really be embracing more of the New Labour energy that things actually can be better. We don't need to fight over dwindling resources. We can bake more pies.

Indeed.

In general the nihilistic/fascist right represent that sort of view in society - I have given up, it sucks, now lets make sure it sucks for others as well. I don't know what the new positive message that can overcome that with everything that's going on, but I feel like one could (and definitely should) be found.