Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Gups

Quote from: Josquius on March 22, 2023, 03:22:51 PMTurned on channel 4 and Rees Mogg doing his bit to win the most punchable man in Britain contest again I see.

I saw that too and was really fantasising about punching his smug Tory boy face.

I would have told him to take his glasses off first though.

I'm not an animal.

HVC

Slap him first, glasses come off, then punch him.  You're welcome  -_-
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Josquius

In other news. The ofsted stuff going on is fascinating.

One of many articles on it if you haven't seen.

BBC News - Ruth Perry: Calls made for Ofsted overhaul after head teacher's death
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-65026076

It always has struck me as a pretty horrid way of doing things. A schools entire reputation and everything connected to this depending on one day every few years.
True theres a sort of delicious irony as that's the same shit students yet.
But still. No surprise someone has died off the back of it.
The problem is, if not this then how do we rate schools? Is it even something we should be doing?
In Switzerland they don't really publically publish this stuff and rate schools off the back of exams every 2 years... Which has big problems of its own.
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viper37

This is not really news, because re-searching for it led me to a text from 2022.  However this tweet is more detailed, with graphs, and is from yesterday.

UK energy bills are £9.8bn higher than they would have been if "green crap" climate policies had not been scrapped over the past decade
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Zanza

Must be a similar story here with Conservatives sabotaging wind and solar in 2011 (together with phasing out nuclear). At least insulation went on as far as I know.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Zanza on March 23, 2023, 12:59:27 AMMust be a similar story here with Conservatives sabotaging wind and solar in 2011 (together with phasing out nuclear). At least insulation went on as far as I know.

It wasn't just Germany wasn't it?  Didn't most Euro countries set their permit prices too low?

The Larch

Over here the conservatives also nixed the emerging renewables market around that time (I want to say 2014, but I'm not super sure), particulary solar, claiming that the economic support via feed-in tariffs was way too generous and was costing too much money, and even put a tax to it (the so called "sun tax"). That cratered that particular sector, which is only re-emerging now after those measures were phased out a couple of years ago, and Spain was taken to international trade courts by several investment groups and made to pay anyway. Possibly one of the most disastrous policies they could have taken.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Josquius on March 22, 2023, 03:22:51 PMTurned on channel 4 and Rees Mogg doing his bit to win the most punchable man in Britain contest again I see.

The caption a wit in my tweeter feed gave to his interview was "Mogg trying desperately to appear important"

Sheilbh

Quote from: Zanza on March 23, 2023, 12:59:27 AMMust be a similar story here with Conservatives sabotaging wind and solar in 2011 (together with phasing out nuclear). At least insulation went on as far as I know.
I think in some ways similar but the opposite. The big casualty here was insulation subsidies which cratered after Cameron's "cut out the green crap"/"barnacles off the boat" strategy..

Onshore wind and solar were profoundly damaged but not as part of that and, inevitably, mainly through planning reform :lol: :bleeding: But it still allowed for a big expansion of off-shore wind because there aren't nautical NIMBYs (yet).

QuoteIt always has struck me as a pretty horrid way of doing things. A schools entire reputation and everything connected to this depending on one day every few years.
True theres a sort of delicious irony as that's the same shit students yet.
But still. No surprise someone has died off the back of it.
The problem is, if not this then how do we rate schools? Is it even something we should be doing?
In Switzerland they don't really publically publish this stuff and rate schools off the back of exams every 2 years... Which has big problems of its own.
I think there are big problems with Ofsted I saw the recent study that five years after an Ofsted inspection you couldn't, from exam results, observe the difference between different Ofsted ratings.

But this is where my Blairite ultra New Labour sympathies still come out. I think you have well-funded public services but you also have inspections (although Ofsted also needs reform) and public league tables :ph34r: It's also where I end up getting into insane "who watches the watchmen" territory on this because my instinct with anything in the public sector, including regulators, is that they also need reform and maybe they would perform better if there were inspections and league tables and accountability :ph34r: :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

The Larch

Good to know that MPs have established daily rates for work with private business.

QuoteTop Tory MPs ask for £10,000 a day to work for fake Korean company
Video footage shows Matt Hancock and Kwasi Kwarteng discussing pay rates after being duped by campaigners

The former chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, and former health secretary, Matt Hancock, agreed to work for £10,000 a day to further the interests of a fake South Korean firm after apparently being duped by the campaign group Led by Donkeys.

Kwarteng attended a preliminary meeting at his parliamentary office and agreed in principle to be paid the daily rate after saying he did not require a "king's ransom". When Hancock was asked his daily rate, he responded: "It's 10,000 sterling."

Sir Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee, also attended an online meeting for the fake foreign firm from his parliamentary office. When asked about the limits on arranging meetings, he made clear he could not advocate on behalf of the interest but said he may be able to advise the firm on who to approach in government. He said a rate of about £6,000 a day "feels about right" and any payments would be on a public register.

A fourth MP, former minister Stephen Hammond, who had been approached, said this weekend he considered he had been the victim of a "scam". He said he thought he was engaged in a preliminary discussion with a company but "it turns out this company was fake, with a fake website". Hancock's spokesperson said he had acted "entirely properly" and criticised what he described as the "illegal publication of a private conversation".

The senior politicians have complied with all relevant rules and referred to their obligation to their constituents during preliminary meetings. The Led by Donkeys project, conducted with investigative reporter Antony Barnett, comes at a time when people face a cost of living crisis. The campaign group released a report on its investigation on Twitter on Saturday , with recorded undercover footage.

While they are not prohibited from such meetings and no arrangements were finalised, there is currently intense scrutiny of politicians' outside earnings. Labour has said it will ban most second jobs for MPs if it wins power.

The purported firm that approached the politicians did not exist and had a rudimentary foreign website with fake testimonials. MPs have been warned by the Home Office to be on their guard against the "threat of foreign interference", and the group's investigation demonstrated the ease with which they seemed able to gain access to the MPs .

Led by Donkeys is understood to have approached 20 MPs from the Conservative party, Labour and Liberal Democrats after examining the outside earnings of MPs on the parliamentary register of interests. An email sent by the fake investment and consulting firm, Hanseong Consulting, said it wanted individuals for an international advisory board to "help our clients navigate the shifting political, regulatory and legislative frameworks" in the UK and Europe.

It said advisers would be required to attend six board meetings a year, with a "very attractive" remuneration package and "generous expenses" for international travel. Five MPs agreed to be interviewed on Zoom, with one who was clearly suspicious of the firm's credentials terminating the call. The MPs were interviewed by a woman purporting to be a senior executive, with a backdrop of the skyline of Seoul, the South Korean capital, at her office window.

In February, Kwarteng attended an online meeting of about 40 minutes, informing the interviewer that he was "sitting in my office in parliament". Kwarteng was sacked as chancellor last October by the then prime minister Liz Truss after his mini-budget precipitated a financial crisis.

During a discussion about what the renuneration might be, Kwarteng said he would not do anything for less than £10,000 a month. He said he would need to be compensated "particularly if I'm going to Korea". When he was told the firm was looking at a rate of £8,000 to £12,000 a day, he responded that they were numbers he could work with. It was agreed that if he went to Korea he could invoice at £10,000 a day.

Discussing his credentials, he said he had significant experience from his roles as a former business secretary and "briefly as chancellor". The prospect of Kwarteng citing his political track record for what appeared a lucrative role may anger homeowners who saw mortgage repayments rise because of his disastrous tenure at the Treasury. He discussed Brexit, the energy industry and Boris Johnson, with whom he said might be able to arrange a meeting.

In early March, Hancock agreed to an online meeting for the advisory role. The Telegraph had that week published his leaked cache of more than 100,000 WhatsApp messages, but he seemed relaxed for the meeting with the fake foreign firm. He said it had been "quite a busy week" but that March was the "start of hope".

"We were wondering, do you have a daily rate at the moment?" he was asked by the interviewer, posing as a senior business executive. "I do, yes," Hancock replied. "It's 10,000 sterling."

The footage showing his rapid response to a question over fees is likely to spark fresh controversy over concerns MPs may be bolstering their finances in ways that may be counter to the interest of the constituents they serve. Hancock is an independent MP after he had the whip suspended for taking part in I'm a Celebrity, for which he was paid £320,000, with Rishi Sunak's spokesperson saying at the time that "MPs should be working hard for their constituents".

Hancock said in the meeting that he followed the "spirit and letter" of parliamentary rules, and would also require additional approval for the role because he had been a minister, but outside interests were permitted. He said he was mindful of the responsibility to serve his constituents.

Brady, one of parliament's most senior backbenchers, was interviewed remotely in his parliamentary office in mid-February. He said he could attend international meetings and may have more flexibility because of his degree of seniority in the party.

Brady said £60,000-a-year may be a reasonable fee, and it was agreed a rate of £500 an hour and £6,000 a day would be appropriate, but open to negotiation. He said he was always careful to follow the rules, but said he might be able to identify people in government to approach and "how to do it in the most appropriate way".

Hammond, the Wimbledon MP and a former transport and health minister, also agreed to a meeting, saying he had a specific interest in South Korea because he had a number of nationals living in his constituency. He told the company he already had roles with two other firms, both of which are disclosed in the parliamentary register of interests.

Labour called the developments "shameful". Thangam Debbonaire, the shadow leader of the House of Commons, said: "Being an MP is a full-time job. Tory MPs should not be using their taxpayer-funded offices to line their own pockets. This is shameful at any time but particularly during the cost of living crisis.

"Rishi Sunak promised a government of integrity at every level, yet his own MPs are seemingly breaching the rules. He must act and remove the whip from those involved.

"Labour will put an end to MPs raking in thousands of pounds on the side and act to restore trust in politics."

MPs have faced repeated controversies over outside earnings. A new code of conduct for MPs was introduced on 1 March, and for the first time it prohibits members providing paid parliamentary advice to an outside employer.

Labour's Commission on the Future of the UK, which was published last December and chaired by former prime minister Gordon Brown, called for a general ban on second jobs for MPs.

Led by Donkeys was established in 2018 as a campaign in response to Brexit. Its high-profile projects and satirical stunts have since included a spoof episode of the BBC show Line of Duty with Boris Johnson being interrogated by the anti-corruption AC-12 unit and painting the colours of the Ukrainian flag outside the Russian embassy in London.

A spokesperson for Hancock said: "The accusation appears to be that Matt acted entirely properly and within the rules, which had just been unanimously adopted by parliament. It's absurd to bring Mr Hancock into this story through the illegal publication of a private conversation. All the video shows is Matt acting completely properly."

Brady said he was leaving parliament at the next election and had received a number of approaches concerning future opportunities, including the purported South Korean firm. He said: "I made it clear that any arrangement would have to be completely transparent and that, whilst a member of parliament, I would only act within the terms of the code of conduct. I also made it clear that while I could be flexible in attending international meetings in person, this would be subject to some important votes or commitments in Westminster."

He said that, with regard to advice on approaching figures in government, he made clear he would always follow the rules. He said he was interviewed prior to a stricter code of conduct being introduced on 1 March.

He said he did "some internet research" on the firm but, given it was an exploratory conversation, considered it reasonable to proceed. He said he did not consider he was "doing business" in his parliamentary office and it was not a bad thing for MPs to have outside interests, providing they followed the rules.

Hammond said: "This was nothing other than what I thought to be a preliminary discussion with a South Korean company – a country that is close to my heart as I have a substantial Korean community in my constituency, and which is an important ally to the UK. It turns out this company was fake, with a fake website. The remuneration amount was suggested by the actor purporting to be an employee of the company, not by me. Scamming is an unpleasant activity undertaken with malicious intent. I believe it is a great honour to be an MP. I have always put my constituents first and will always try to act in their best interests."

Kwarteng did not respond to a request for comment.

Richard Hakluyt

"illegal publication of a private conversation"  :hmm:

An interesting defence by Hancock.

Sheilbh

It's gone up a bit from the £3-5,000 in 2010 with Hoon, Byers, Hewitt etc (feels like another sign were at the end of a government - especially as I think three of the four are standing down at the next election).
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

#24537
QuoteSir Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee, also attended an online meeting for the fake foreign firm from his parliamentary office. When asked about the limits on arranging meetings, he made clear he could not advocate on behalf of the interest but said he may be able to advise the firm on who to approach in government.

What a weird take.
"I'm not corrupt but if you pay me I can tell you who is"


But ja. Really need a crackdown on this stuff. Minimal exceptions for MPs working second jobs - professionals putting in the occasional hour to cover shortages, limited amount of clearly documented and public advisory stuff on their specialism, and so on.
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Sheilbh

#24538
Quote from: Josquius on March 26, 2023, 02:50:11 AMWhat a weird take.
"I'm not corrupt but if you pay me I can tell you who is"
Those are the rules.

Humza Yousaf won the SNP leadership race (yet again 52/48 :lol:). Largely to be expected - he was the favourite and is the continuity candidate and I think many in the SNP were particularly unhappy with Forbes' recently branding the record of the Sturgeon governments as "mediocre". Internal selectorates generally don't like being told that sort of thing.

The downside is he is very unpopular with the wider, non-SNP public and is perceived to have been a very ineffective/incompetent minister at both justice and health. I think Scottish Labour would've been happy with Yousaf or Forbes - but I suspect will be looking forward to facing off against him. Especially as the party splits have become very public and I suspect there's more to come from the police investigation:
QuoteHumza Yousaf elected leader of Scottish National party
Greens confirm they will back Yousaf as first minister but former health secretary faces battle to unite SNP
Severin Carrell and Libby Brooks
Mon 27 Mar 2023 17.57 BST
First published on Mon 27 Mar 2023 14.11 BST

Humza Yousaf has been elected the first minority ethnic leader of the Scottish National party, in a narrow victory that will force him to confront deep divisions within the party.

He is almost certain to be confirmed as Scotland's next first minister after the Scottish Greens said they would back his nomination on Tuesday, but he faces a significant internal challenge bringing the SNP's warring wings together.

Widely seen as Nicola Sturgeon's preferred successor, Yousaf defeated his closest rival, Kate Forbes, by a narrower than expected 52% to 48% after second-preference votes cast by supporters of Ash Regan, the candidate who came last in the first round, were counted. The turnout was 70%.

He secured fewer of Regan's second-preference votes than Forbes but took enough to win. Even so, the size of Forbes's vote demonstrates that Sturgeon's policy platform has less support among ordinary members than thought. In the first round, Yousaf led with 48% of the votes, with Forbes on 40%.


Forbes, a social and fiscal conservative, founded her campaign on blunt and highly critical attacks on Yousaf's record as a minister, in which she denounced his repeated support for Sturgeon's centre-left policies as "mediocre" and complacent.

In an immediate boost to his nascent government, the Scottish Greens said they would vote to confirm Yousaf as first minister on Tuesday and would uphold the Bute House power-sharing agreement brokered by Sturgeon in 2021.

That will maintain a pro-independence majority at Holyrood and ensure Yousaf can push through future budgets and policies without negotiating with Holyrood's three pro-UK parties.

Over the weekend, the Scottish Greens warned that the SNP would risk becoming a minority government if Forbes won, as they would abandon the coalition.

In a signal to the SNP's independence hardliners, Yousaf told ITV News that one of his first acts as first minister would be to formally request the powers to stage a fresh independence referendum from the Westminster government – a request Downing Street rejected.

Yousaf said he would immediately meet Forbes and Regan to discuss keeping them in the government. Regan resigned as a junior minister in protest at Sturgeon's gender recognition reform bill – legislation Yousaf has pledged to defend. Forbes, too, was highly critical of those reforms.

Yousaf had taken his seat before the official announcement with a grin on his face, having high-fived some of his supporters. He said he wanted to unite all sections of the party. The size of Forbes's support suggests he may need to rethink many of his boldest taxation policies in order to keep her in his cabinet.

"Leadership elections by their nature can be bruising; however, in the SNP we are a family," Yousaf said. "Where there are divisions to heal, we must do so quickly because we have a job to do and as a party we are at our strongest when we are united."

Forbes, the finance secretary, who is due to return from maternity leave in early April, told reporters after Yousaf's speech that she would discuss staying in his cabinet but refused to say what she would want in return.

She made clear she expected him to listen to party members, and she would not commit to backing Yousaf's policy of fighting the UK government's block on Holyrood's gender recognition bill.

Securing 48% of the vote may make Forbes consider running again for the leadership in future. Many opinion polls suggested Scottish voters preferred her to Yousaf, although those polls also showed most voters were unsure who would be the best first minister.

Forbes said she was a democrat, adding: "I'm here to support the new leader of the SNP. I absolutely accept Humza Yousaf is the new leader and of course I will continue to work with him to ensure we have a plan which has the confidence of SNP members."

She said she expected Yousaf to accept that discussions about the SNP's policies and direction had to continue now the leadership contest was over – a strong hint she wants him to compromise on his policies. "We're absolutely united [but] we want to create the opportunity in the party now to continue to discuss ideas, but we are united as one, to serve the people of Scotland," she said.

The announcement at Murrayfield stadium in Edinburgh on Monday afternoon came after a fractious contest involving deep policy divisions, unprecedented personal attacks and the resignation of the party's chief executive and Sturgeon's husband, Peter Murrell, after damaging revelations that the media had been fed false information about membership figures.

The party revealed that its membership had fallen from 104,000 to 72,000 since December 2021 after Yousaf, Forbes and Regan demanded transparency in how the vote was being run.

The result was announced after the online ballot of members closed at midday, concluding the first leadership contest since 2004, as Sturgeon was elected unopposed to replace Alex Salmond in 2014.

At the end of his victory statement, Yousaf paid tribute to his Punjabi grandparents, who arrived in Scotland as migrants in the 1960s speaking rudimentary English. His grandfather Muhammad Yousaf worked in a sewing machine factory; his grandmother Rehmat Ali Bhutta stamped tickets on Glasgow buses.

"They could not have imagined in their wildest dreams that their grandson would one day be on the cusp of being the next first minister of Scotland," he said.

The last point is fair - especially as the Labour alternative Anas Sarwar is also son of Pakistani immigrants Although his dad ran a cash-and-carry with his brother which he built into a mini-chain and later became an MP in Glasgow and a big figure in Scottish Labour - and later, and until last year, Governor of Punjab first for Sharif's party and more recently for Khan's - so a little bit different :lol:

All issues with Yousaf aside, I think it is positive, though, that Scotland now has an observant Muslim First Minister, same for London's Mayor (the largest direct mandate in the UK) who are both of Pakistani heritage and the UK has a Hindu PM of Indian heritage. Add in Leo Varadkar who was raised Catholic but is also of Indian heritage. It'll be fairly striking at the new meeting of the British-Irish Council of government leaders from across these isles.

Not often sure about any inevitability about anything like this but I really feel like the people moaning about London's Ramadan lights really are howling into the void.
Let's bomb Russia!

PJL

#24539
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 27, 2023, 03:10:10 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 26, 2023, 02:50:11 AMWhat a weird take.
"I'm not corrupt but if you pay me I can tell you who is"
Those are the rules.

Humza Yousaf won the SNP leadership race (yet again 52/48 :lol:). Largely to be expected - he was the favourite and is the continuity candidate and I think many in the SNP were particularly unhappy with Forbes' recently branding the record of the Sturgeon governments as "mediocre". Internal selectorates generally don't like being told that sort of thing.

The downside is he is very unpopular with the wider, non-SNP public and is perceived to have been a very ineffective/incompetent minister at both justice and health. I think Scottish Labour would've been happy with Yousaf or Forbes - but I suspect will be looking forward to facing off against him. Especially as the party splits have become very public and I suspect there's more to come from the police investigation:
QuoteHumza Yousaf elected leader of Scottish National party
Greens confirm they will back Yousaf as first minister but former health secretary faces battle to unite SNP
Severin Carrell and Libby Brooks
Mon 27 Mar 2023 17.57 BST
First published on Mon 27 Mar 2023 14.11 BST

Humza Yousaf has been elected the first minority ethnic leader of the Scottish National party, in a narrow victory that will force him to confront deep divisions within the party.

He is almost certain to be confirmed as Scotland's next first minister after the Scottish Greens said they would back his nomination on Tuesday, but he faces a significant internal challenge bringing the SNP's warring wings together.

Widely seen as Nicola Sturgeon's preferred successor, Yousaf defeated his closest rival, Kate Forbes, by a narrower than expected 52% to 48% after second-preference votes cast by supporters of Ash Regan, the candidate who came last in the first round, were counted. The turnout was 70%.

He secured fewer of Regan's second-preference votes than Forbes but took enough to win. Even so, the size of Forbes's vote demonstrates that Sturgeon's policy platform has less support among ordinary members than thought. In the first round, Yousaf led with 48% of the votes, with Forbes on 40%.


Forbes, a social and fiscal conservative, founded her campaign on blunt and highly critical attacks on Yousaf's record as a minister, in which she denounced his repeated support for Sturgeon's centre-left policies as "mediocre" and complacent.

In an immediate boost to his nascent government, the Scottish Greens said they would vote to confirm Yousaf as first minister on Tuesday and would uphold the Bute House power-sharing agreement brokered by Sturgeon in 2021.

That will maintain a pro-independence majority at Holyrood and ensure Yousaf can push through future budgets and policies without negotiating with Holyrood's three pro-UK parties.

Over the weekend, the Scottish Greens warned that the SNP would risk becoming a minority government if Forbes won, as they would abandon the coalition.

In a signal to the SNP's independence hardliners, Yousaf told ITV News that one of his first acts as first minister would be to formally request the powers to stage a fresh independence referendum from the Westminster government – a request Downing Street rejected.

Yousaf said he would immediately meet Forbes and Regan to discuss keeping them in the government. Regan resigned as a junior minister in protest at Sturgeon's gender recognition reform bill – legislation Yousaf has pledged to defend. Forbes, too, was highly critical of those reforms.

Yousaf had taken his seat before the official announcement with a grin on his face, having high-fived some of his supporters. He said he wanted to unite all sections of the party. The size of Forbes's support suggests he may need to rethink many of his boldest taxation policies in order to keep her in his cabinet.

"Leadership elections by their nature can be bruising; however, in the SNP we are a family," Yousaf said. "Where there are divisions to heal, we must do so quickly because we have a job to do and as a party we are at our strongest when we are united."

Forbes, the finance secretary, who is due to return from maternity leave in early April, told reporters after Yousaf's speech that she would discuss staying in his cabinet but refused to say what she would want in return.

She made clear she expected him to listen to party members, and she would not commit to backing Yousaf's policy of fighting the UK government's block on Holyrood's gender recognition bill.

Securing 48% of the vote may make Forbes consider running again for the leadership in future. Many opinion polls suggested Scottish voters preferred her to Yousaf, although those polls also showed most voters were unsure who would be the best first minister.

Forbes said she was a democrat, adding: "I'm here to support the new leader of the SNP. I absolutely accept Humza Yousaf is the new leader and of course I will continue to work with him to ensure we have a plan which has the confidence of SNP members."

She said she expected Yousaf to accept that discussions about the SNP's policies and direction had to continue now the leadership contest was over – a strong hint she wants him to compromise on his policies. "We're absolutely united [but] we want to create the opportunity in the party now to continue to discuss ideas, but we are united as one, to serve the people of Scotland," she said.

The announcement at Murrayfield stadium in Edinburgh on Monday afternoon came after a fractious contest involving deep policy divisions, unprecedented personal attacks and the resignation of the party's chief executive and Sturgeon's husband, Peter Murrell, after damaging revelations that the media had been fed false information about membership figures.

The party revealed that its membership had fallen from 104,000 to 72,000 since December 2021 after Yousaf, Forbes and Regan demanded transparency in how the vote was being run.

The result was announced after the online ballot of members closed at midday, concluding the first leadership contest since 2004, as Sturgeon was elected unopposed to replace Alex Salmond in 2014.

At the end of his victory statement, Yousaf paid tribute to his Punjabi grandparents, who arrived in Scotland as migrants in the 1960s speaking rudimentary English. His grandfather Muhammad Yousaf worked in a sewing machine factory; his grandmother Rehmat Ali Bhutta stamped tickets on Glasgow buses.

"They could not have imagined in their wildest dreams that their grandson would one day be on the cusp of being the next first minister of Scotland," he said.

The last point is fair - especially as the Labour alternative Anas Sarwar is also son of Pakistani immigrants Although his dad ran a cash-and-carry with his brother which he built into a mini-chain and later became an MP in Glasgow and a big figure in Scottish Labour - and later, and until last year, Governor of Punjab first for Sharif's party and more recently for Khan's - so a little bit different :lol:

All issues with Yousaf aside, I think it is positive, though, that Scotland now has an observant Muslim First Minister, same for London's Mayor (the largest direct mandate in the UK) who are both of Pakistani heritage and the UK has a Hindu PM of Indian heritage. Add in Leo Varadkar who was raised Catholic but is also of Indian heritage. It'll be fairly striking at the new meeting of the British-Irish Council of government leaders from across these isles.

Not often sure about any inevitability about anything like this but I really feel like the people moaning about London's Ramadan lights really are howling into the void.

Not so sure about your last point. You had Obama in the the US being the first black president and then they got Tangoed.