Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Sheilbh

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 13, 2020, 12:59:07 PM
May's advisors were horrible as well; perhaps it is a job requirement.
Yeah - Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy they both went after she failed to win the 2017 election because they were just dicks to deal with. They were then replaced by Gavin Barwell who's by all accounts very polite and pleasant.

I think part of it is the ur-advisor in British politics is Alastair Campbell, then there's Malcolm Tucker in The Thick Of It and it just creates like this cycle that reinforces that that is how political advisors are supposed to be.

Stephen Bush has been tweeting about this - it's really weird how much rudeness is a bit of Westminster culture given that we're a parliamentary democracy so every MP kind of matters. As he notes it's particularly odd as a large part of Cameron's success (even though he had Andy Coulson to begin with) was based on seeming like a nice polite boy and Corbyn got into the Labour leadership race by politely asking centrist MPs to nominate him so the leadership campaign had diverse opinions represented. We're a country that really likes politeness as a virtue but seemingly none of our political leaders show any interest in that :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Razgovory on November 13, 2020, 01:02:36 PM
Dom will now go back to his home planet and report his findings to the hive.
I am expecting a 15,000 word blogpost on his time in Number 10 by Christmas :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

So they sank all their credibility for fighting the pandemic just to keep PM Cummings in charge and now a palace coup replaces him?

Also it is funny how the speculations have made it seem like Johnson is little more than a figure head with members of his entourage fighting to be the real power leading the country. We have a token monarch AND a token prime minister!

Tamas

QuoteDowning Street now saying
Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain will continue to work for the PM and No10 until mid-December.

And these people are also organising a no-deal Brexit while "dealing with" a pandemic.

Sheilbh

Apparently Lord (Ed) Lister will be the temporary chief of staff, which is interesting because he was Johnson's chief of staff when he was Mayor and was Deputy Mayor for a while.

It feels like that might signal a shift in approach: Johnson getting rid of the people he worked with on Vote Leave and bringing in the people he worked with as Mayor.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tamas on November 13, 2020, 01:20:01 PM
QuoteDowning Street now saying
Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain will continue to work for the PM and No10 until mid-December.

And these people are also organising a no-deal Brexit while "dealing with" a pandemic.
Apparently they're on gardening leave - so they're working out their notice, but not actually doing anything.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Some great reporting in this FT piece - honestly the arrogance of briefing against your boss's partner and thinking you'd get away with it :blink

I mean if there's one thing you do that's surely it. Can you imagine anyone lasting in the Obama White House if it was found they were briefing negative stories to the media about Michelle, frankly any world leader (with the possible exception of Trump who I don't think would care) would hit the roof about that sort of nonsense:
QuoteJohnson tells Cummings to leave Downing St immediately
Fears in Number 10 that PM's former aide and Brexit architect will turn against him
George Parker and Sebastian Payne in London and Jim Brunsden in Brussels 2 hours ago

Dominic Cummings, Boris Johnson's chief adviser and architect of Britain's exit from the EU, left his desk in Downing Street for the last time on Friday carrying a cardboard box and a trove of potentially dangerous secrets.

The prime minister told Mr Cummings to leave Downing Street after a week of acrimony at the heart of government, marking the end of an era in which Vote Leave officials dominated Mr Johnson's operation.

Mr Cummings' decision to walk out of Number 10 after what one official called "a day of tantrums" raised concerns that the adviser might turn against Mr Johnson and lift the lid on a chaotic administration.

One government insider said: "I won't be surprised if there's an explosive stunt between now and Christmas." A colleague of Mr Cummings said: "It's not Dom's style just to quietly drift away."

Mr Cummings declined to comment but he has never shied away from using his private blog to seek revenge on those who have crossed him. Lee Cain, Mr Johnson's communications director, also quit his job on Friday.

Mr Cummings resigned after Mr Johnson indicated that he was going to cut loose the Brexit campaigners who had sustained his rise to power and helped him win an 80-seat Commons majority in December last year.

Mr Johnson held a 45-minute meeting with Mr Cummings and Mr Cain on Friday to discuss their "general behaviour" this week, according to individuals with knowledge of the conversation.

In tense exchanges, Mr Johnson accused his aides of briefing against him and his partner Carrie Symonds and criticised them for destabilising the government in the midst of tense Brexit negotiations.

Mr Johnson showed the aides text messages that had been forwarded to Ms Symonds, who opposed Mr Cain's appointment as chief of staff, to show they had briefed against her. He told them to get out and never return.


Tory officials said Mr Cummings and Mr Cain would continue to do some work for Number 10 until mid-December but were expected to operate from home.

Mr Johnson, who refused to make Mr Cain his chief of staff, is looking to usher in a more consensual style of politics in 2021, more in tune with the conventional politics returning to the US under president-elect Joe Biden.

Mr Johnson's remaining team inside Number 10 is braced for Mr Cummings' revenge. Vote Leave advisers have complained privately about the prime minister's inability to make big decisions and his lack of grip on detail.

"I'm told there is a blog coming. Spads [special advisers] are preparing about how to respond," said one official. "It's really the last days of Rome in here."


Some say that Mr Cummings — who became frustrated at the slow progress in implementing his own agenda of civil service reform, defence reforms and science projects — will seek to blame Mr Johnson.

"Dom is going to have to face up to the fact that after spending years writing millions of words in his blogs, he has achieved nothing in government," said one ministerial adviser.

Meanwhile, Downing Street has insisted that Mr Johnson is not going to back down in trade negotiations with the EU, in spite of the acrimonious departure of Mr Cummings and other Brexit hardliners.

Mr Cummings' resignation comes ahead of a crucial phase in Brexit talks in Brussels next week, prompting speculation that the prime minister might have more political space to make the concessions needed to close a deal.

But Mr Johnson's allies rejected any suggestion that he would soften his stance, saying that while the prime minister wanted a deal, it would only be concluded if the EU fully respected British sovereignty. "Policy will not change on this," Downing Street said.

The prime minister fears that Brussels might misread the bitter power struggle in Downing Street as a sign of a weakening resolve in the trade talks. "The PM is always the toughest voice in the room on Brexit," one official said.

Philippe Lamberts, a member of the European Parliament's Brexit co-ordination group, said the ructions in Downing Street were a positive sign that Mr Johnson wanted a deal with the EU. The post-Brexit transition period ends on January 1.

"I do believe indeed that he's making the choice of a deal," Mr Lamberts told the Financial Times. "This puts him on a collision course with hard Brexiters such as Dominic Cummings."

Kim Darroch, Britain's former ambassador to Washington and Brussels, said any "weakening of the hold on policy" by Mr Cummings and his Vote Leave cadre of advisers would be a good thing.

Lord Darroch said that, if there were no trade deal, Britain could enter 2021 at odds with the US, the EU and China. US president-elect Joe Biden thinks Brexit is a bad idea and could harm the Northern Ireland peace process.

Speaking at the FT Global Boardroom event, the former envoy said: "Where exactly are our friends in this brave new world? That ought to worry us."

Many Conservative MPs celebrated the departure of Mr Cummings, who has publicly spoken of his contempt for many Eurosceptic Tory MPs. "Rejoice," said one MP, while another added: "Good riddance."

Edward Lister, Mr Johnson's longstanding ally from his days as London mayor, will be the new chief of staff in Downing Street for an interim period, pending a permanent appointment.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

From Sebastian Payne of the FT:
QuoteSenior No10 official tonight on this photo:

"That's the last time he walks down the road like Kim Kardashian, preening for the cameras like the spoilt lord of Barnard Castle. In future advisers will go round the back and let the elected prime minister use the front door."
:mellow: :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

Its weird they even managed to arrange a perfectly lit photo op for this
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Sheilbh

Quote from: Tyr on November 14, 2020, 10:12:01 AM
Its weird they even managed to arrange a perfectly lit photo op for this
:lol: Although it does look the same as Sky News caught on camera and I think there are professional cameramen and photographers outside Nr 10 on most days if there's a story going on.

It is always weird because I am ambivalent on Cummings. I don't think he's nearly as original as he thinks he is, but he raises some very good points and criticisms. I'm also not sure he's capable of fixing them. Having said that I think when everything comes out Cummings will have been more right than most in Nr 10 on covid (there's been so many reports of him pushing for stricter measures and being over-ruled etc) and whoever replaces him will be far more pro-austerity which is the opposite of what we need.
Let's bomb Russia!

Zanza

QuoteI think when everything comes out Cummings will have been more right than most in Nr 10 on covid (there's been so many reports of him pushing for stricter measures and being over-ruled etc)
:huh: His actions showed that he felt ignoring the measures is fine, which cost the UK government massive political capital and will surely have reduced rule compliance. 

Quotewhoever replaces him will be far more pro-austerity which is the opposite of what we need.
He was supposedly the architect of the event that will cause a considerable economic shock for the British economy in less than two months, on top of Covid. This will hit the poorest areas of the UK the most. And he wanted to spend money on building a tech giant, hardly a help for those regions. So it would likely be austerity for them nevertheless. 

To me, he looks like a destructive radical who has achieved chaos, but not much else.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2020, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 13, 2020, 09:04:17 AM
Similar kind of stuff they use to get graduates in in-demand subjects into teaching. Extra money can convince people to put up with a fair bit of shit.

Giving BAME people extra money/special treatment sounds like a terrible way to integrate them into the wider force.

It would also be incredibly unfair to whiteys who are doing the exact same job and getting paid less to do it.

Josquius

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 14, 2020, 11:19:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2020, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 13, 2020, 09:04:17 AM
Similar kind of stuff they use to get graduates in in-demand subjects into teaching. Extra money can convince people to put up with a fair bit of shit.

Giving BAME people extra money/special treatment sounds like a terrible way to integrate them into the wider force.

It would also be incredibly unfair to whiteys who are doing the exact same job and getting paid less to do it.
I don't think there's different pay. The enticements are one offs during the training period.

It does indeed suck for those white people who are just as bad off as the minorities they're targeting. But that's the way this sort of thing goes. It's about macro not micro change. If they've decided a lack of minorities is a real problem needing addressing then that's what they're doing.
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garbon

As Sheilbh pointed out the % BAME has previously been higher. It doesn't appear to have solved the issues then, so why would it solve them now?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

mongers

Johnson is now self-isolating following contact with an infected person.  :hmm:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"