The destruction of the wage class, the politics of resentment and Donald Trump

[crazy canuck]

Wow, that's just bizarre to me. Could the destruction of the "wage class" be also caused by the fact that most businesses are moving to salary-based payments like the rest of the civilised world, leaving only the shittiest job with an hourly wage?

I thought most private practice lawyers charge an hourly wage? 

Seriously though, the same with a lot of trade-skill jobs (plumbers, contractors, etc)...in Amerika, at least.  Though one might argue a large difference between charging hours, and being employed on an hourly wage...though often even trade jobs have an "employer" and still work on hourly wages.

Many U.S. civil service jobs also work on hourly wages instead of salaries (police departments, for example).

These seem like two completely different things to me.

It is reasonable to charge by the hour if you work in a service industry, when you have flexible working hours and often work for several different people during your work day. On the other hand, if you work a basically 9-5 job, it is completely bonkers to do so.

So, yes, for lawyers, plumbers and contracts make sense to charge by an hour. For office managers, civil servants and policemen it does not.

I think you are confusing things.  Some of the best paid jobs are paid by the hour.  I think you are conflating hourly pay rates with undesirable jobs.  Assuming an employee is entitled to overtime pay, there is no difference between an hourly rate and annual salary other than the administrative burden of paying by the hour (although calculating the overtime entitlement for a salaried worker can also be a pain at times).  In circumstances where the salaried employee is not entitled to overtime then the hourly paid employee has an advantage since they are paid for all time worked and overtime at a premium.

The hourly paid employees in a difficult spot are those who are paid by the hour because they have "flexible hours" meaning their hours of work are uncertain and unpredictable.  But don't confuse that segment of hourly paid workers with the rest.

[Valmy]

Well to this I have a couple rebuttals:

1. I think the "salaried" class is worried about rising health care costs, education, housing, child care and so forth that you need a small fortune for. I don't think their interests are all about getting cheap iPhones and would happily trade that for cheaper fundamentals. Salaried people happily saved up for $3,000.00 PCs and hey they were better status symbols back then.

2. This problem is world wide and hardly limited to the US.

But true that offshoring has been something that has come with serious social problems. My hope was that our welfare states would get us through the rough waters until the jobs started coming back. Sometimes I hear that this is taking place, other times I don't

But granted that arrangement where one dude working at the factory could support a whole family are long gone...but then it is hard for one salaried person to do that same.

[Berkut]

In respect to the OP, there is a LOT of assertion there. A lot of "This happened, and it is because of this!" without any actual evidence of a link at all.

Meh. It is just a rant.

[Valmy]

In respect to the OP, there is a LOT of assertion there. A lot of "This happened, and it is because of this!" without any actual evidence of a link at all.

Meh. It is just a rant.

Yes

People with salaries DESTROYED the manufacturing economy to get cheaper gadgets. Sure.

[Iormlund]

I imagine it would work well for, say, factory jobs too...if your country had a bustling manufacturing sector and low unemployment (where that demand for overtime could kick in as well)...but it seems the margin there is much thinner.  Since we've exported most of those jobs overseas...it's not working out so well, for us, or for Asian wage slaves.  That b

Yes. My employer is an American manufacturing company. The way they do things is most people get paid by the hour (machine operators, train drivers, lab technicians, maintenance staff) and a few get salaries (those in IT, admin, management, engineering). The ratio is something like ten to one.

[alfred russel]

if I work overtime I have to compensate by taking time off.

Interesting. If I work overtime I'm expected to be at work on time the next day. For example, last night I was at the office until after 11 PM, and today walking at 9:08 AM my old boss made a comment on it. I like your system better.

[DGuller]

if I work overtime I have to compensate by taking time off.

Interesting. If I work overtime I'm expected to be at work on time the next day. For example, last night I was at the office until after 11 PM, and today walking at 9:08 AM my old boss made a comment on it. I like your system better.

You mean made a comment about being 8 minutes late?

[Iormlund]

if I work overtime I have to compensate by taking time off.

Interesting. If I work overtime I'm expected to be at work on time the next day. For example, last night I was at the office until after 11 PM, and today walking at 9:08 AM my old boss made a comment on it. I like your system better.

I used to work in a place like that. I was reprimanded for calling sick on a Saturday after I had worked 12 hours a day for two weeks straight (including Sunday).

I don't work there anymore.

[Zanza]

Bah, I figured I don't want to get involved in this thread after all and deleted my post. Too slow obviously...
So I originally wrote that I am basically paid for working 1800 hours a year (225 workdays x 8 hours) and if I work more than eight hours a day, I have to take that overtime as time off.

Anyway, as you already quoted it: In my company, we have fully flexible times, so you can basically come and go as you wish (between 6am and 8pm). The only limitation is obviously if you have scheduled meetings, where presence is expected. I am also allowed to work from other places than my office if my boss agrees - which he usually does. 

[Zanza]

Interesting. If I work overtime I'm expected to be at work on time the next day. For example, last night I was at the office until after 11 PM, and today walking at 9:08 AM my old boss made a comment on it. I like your system better.

I also don't have to compensate it on the next day. Last year, I often worked 9-10 hours a day as we had a rather work intensive project. I compensated that by taking 19 or 20 full days off, one week in February for skiing, one week in August for kite surfing and one week in September for mountain climbing. I guess I usually have like 10-20 extra days off per year thanks to the overtime rules.

[mongers]

Interesting. If I work overtime I'm expected to be at work on time the next day. For example, last night I was at the office until after 11 PM, and today walking at 9:08 AM my old boss made a comment on it. I like your system better.

I also don't have to compensate it on the next day. Last year, I often worked 9-10 hours a day as we had a rather work intensive project. I compensated that by taking 19 or 20 full days off, one week in February for skiing, one week in August for kite surfing and one week in September for mountain climbing. I guess I usually have like 10-20 extra days off per year thanks to the overtime rules.

And this is textbook as to why German manufacturing is failing.

[alfred russel]

You mean made a comment about being 8 minutes late?

Yes, not a horrible comment, and actually I'm usually a lot later than that. And she isn't my boss anymore anyway.

[DGuller]

You mean made a comment about being 8 minutes late?

Yes, not a horrible comment, and actually I'm usually a lot later than that. And she isn't my boss anymore anyway.

Wow, that was quick.  I guess she wishes she didn't say anything now.

[mongers]

You mean made a comment about being 8 minutes late?

Yes, not a horrible comment, and actually I'm usually a lot later than that. And she isn't my boss anymore anyway.

Wow, that was quick.  I guess she wishes she didn't say anything now.

AR reading Hansie's book 'Workplace Ethics' seems to have done the trick. 

[dps]

The cops like it that way because they get overtime.

In Europe, most salary jobs get overtime nonetheless. The only jobs where you are not entitled to overtime are higher managerial ones. In fact, wage jobs are the ones that you do not get overtime by definition. 

It's the exact opposite here.  With a few exceptions, employers are required to pay overtime for workers paid by the hour, but don't have to do so for salaried workers.  In fact, that's the main reason to put someone on salary--you don't have to pay them overtime.  For that reason, there are legal restrictions on who can be put on salary.  Basically, you can't legally pay anyone a salary instead of an hourly wage unless they're a manager or executive, and anyone who is on salary also has to be paid a certain minimum annually (which used to be $24,000 IIRC, but that's gone up I believe).  Note that the inverse isn't true--there's no legal requirement that managers and executives be paid a salary instead of an hourly wage (which is why some managers are paid hourly wages instead of salaries).