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Whither Trump?

Started by Jacob, December 07, 2015, 07:31:19 PM

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Come the 2016 Presidential Elections in the US, where will Trump be?

Presidential Candidate for the Republican Party
18 (40.9%)
Presidential Candidate in an Independent/ Third Party run?
9 (20.5%)
Not a presidential candidate at all.
16 (36.4%)
Some other scenario...
1 (2.3%)

Total Members Voted: 44

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Malthus

#90
December 10, 2015, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2015, 02:40:41 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 10, 2015, 02:29:30 PM
I prefer the thread title "Wither Trump", without the "h" or the "?".  :P

But...the poor fake tan sellers :(

Alas! He is withering in his bloom, lost in solitary gloom.*

[*With apologies to Sharpe fans and poetry lovers  ;)] 
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

DGuller

#91
December 10, 2015, 06:31:04 PM
I think we do have a big problem with news.  You can't just treat news as one kind of content that attracts eyeballs to watch Coca Cola ads.  The health of democracy depends on the public being informed with accurate and objective news, not news that attract the most eyeballs aged 18-34.  But if you treat news as a public utility, then like all public utilities, it has to be regulated and possibly funded by the government.  Not quite an ideal solution in free society either.

So what do we do?  :hmm:

jimmy olsen

#92
December 10, 2015, 09:36:45 PM
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

11B4V

#93
December 10, 2015, 09:54:31 PM
I think Trump is the only person that succeeded in getting cnn, fox, and msnbc allied in hating him. Quite a feat in and of itself.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

11B4V

#94
December 11, 2015, 02:27:56 AM
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Savonarola

#95
December 11, 2015, 08:42:52 AM
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

crazy canuck

#96
December 11, 2015, 10:50:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 10, 2015, 02:35:23 PM
And the most insightful comments in recent years came from Jon Stewart, who didn't host a "comedy show."  He hosted a satirical news show.

:lol:

Oh wait, you were really trying to argue that Stewart's show was a news show.

Eddie Teach

#97
December 11, 2015, 11:31:11 AM
It was pretty informative, assuming you can tell when he was joking.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

crazy canuck

#98
December 11, 2015, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2015, 11:31:11 AM
It was pretty informative, assuming you can tell when he was joking.

Yeah, well that is the point.  People started getting their news from a comedy show - news as entertainment and entertainment as news.

Valmy

#99
December 11, 2015, 11:59:44 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 11, 2015, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2015, 11:31:11 AM
It was pretty informative, assuming you can tell when he was joking.

Yeah, well that is the point.  People started getting their news from a comedy show - news as entertainment and entertainment as news.

Because getting it from the news shows was almost physically painful they were so stupid. Besides I don't see the sin in delivering information in a non-boring way.

Though I usually watched Lehrer myself.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

#100
December 11, 2015, 12:04:16 PM Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 12:08:47 PM by grumbler
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 11, 2015, 11:31:11 AM
It was pretty informative, assuming you can tell when he was joking.

That's how satire works when it works.  There are people who are a bit too slow to know the difference between satirical news shows and comedy shows, but I don't think many of them watched Stewart's show  - and none of those types understood it if they did watch it.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Jacob

#101
December 11, 2015, 12:16:01 PM Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 12:22:38 PM by Jacob
Quote from: Valmy on December 11, 2015, 11:59:44 AM
Because getting it from the news shows was almost physically painful they were so stupid. Besides I don't see the sin in delivering information in a non-boring way.

Though I usually watched Lehrer myself.

Nothing wrong with Stewart - I think he did a great job. Can't speak to Lehrer as I didn't watch him.

Still, I think that when the news are curated with an eye towards generating laughs, it tends to skew perception of what is important in the public discourse. Of course, you could argue that much of the "non-laugh" news reporting is done with an eye towards generating outrage, which likely has a similar result. In fact, the things that generate laughs and the things that generate outrage are probably pretty close in substance, with only a minor change in presentation since mostly about a slightly different change in reaction to absurdity (at least judging on Stewart and John Oliver). Now whether this is a cause or an effect of the present general polarization of political discourse, I'm not sure about.

None of that, of course, absolve regular news from being boring.

The Minsky Moment

#102
December 11, 2015, 12:21:26 PM
I think Stewart and his writers at their best sought out significant news stories and then mined them for the comic implications - as opposed to simply looking for comical situations that may or may not have been truly newsworthy - that's one thing that differentiated his show from predecessors.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Jacob

#103
December 11, 2015, 12:24:12 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 11, 2015, 12:21:26 PM
I think Stewart and his writers at their best sought out significant news stories and then mined them for the comic implications - as opposed to simply looking for comical situations that may or may not have been truly newsworthy - that's one thing that differentiated his show from predecessors.

Yeah, I concur. Though my main point is that when you mine the stories for comical situations, by necessity you'll be discarding a number of things that while non-comical nonetheless are newsworthy from a news/ public-interest point of view.

Valmy

#104
December 11, 2015, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on December 11, 2015, 12:16:01 PM
None of that, of course, absolve regular news from being boring.

It is the combination of being both dumbed down and boring that just kills me.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."
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