Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Malthus]

I don't know, maybe I'm turning into a grumpy old white* guy, but it seems that people are starting to ignore or forget about the importance of intent. If you're dressing up as a native to insult natives, then ya, that's wrong.  But wearing faux leather to look sexy? Is it tacky, sure is, but is it insulting? I don't think so. Dress up as a Portuguese construction worker, or a beaver petting moose riding mounty to have fun. Go nuts, I don't see how that harms me in any way.

* depending on certain people's views. I'm looking at you Ed

I'm deeply offended by all the people who attempt to look sexy by dressing up as middle aged, balding Jewish lawyers. Deeply. 

[Malthus]

Zoupa goes as a French fur trapper BECAUSE HE GRABS THAT PUSSY

Wouldn't "because he grabs that beaver" make more sense? 

[Jacob]

Of course all three countries export those cultures for profit and entertainment. They made the Bollywood tropes and stereotypes themselves and gleefully sent them abroad.

Yeah, I think that's a decent place to draw the line - if you want to dress up as an anime character or a k-pop star or a bollywood character that's pretty legit, but "sexy geisha" or "korean grocery store owner" or "generic guru" are not.

[Zanza]

The SS livery collar on some of those uniforms or the Reich-eagle with the swastika would be criminal offenses in Germany. Not sure about the Death's Head cap, probably illegal as well.

Surely not. The Death's Head Hussars are not really a Nazi thing.

The death's head in the picture is not the one of the hussars though, but of the SS division, which was clearly a Nazi organisation and has been designated a criminal organisation in the Nuremberg trials.

[HVC]

I'm deeply offended by all the people who attempt to look sexy by dressing up as middle aged, balding Jewish lawyers. Deeply. 

more people should. Of the few old Jewish lawyers I know they all have attractive wives. So somethings sexy about them.


... Hint, it's the money. The money is the thing that's sexy about them

[CountDeMoney]

Zoupa goes as a French fur trapper BECAUSE HE GRABS THAT PUSSY

Wouldn't "because he grabs that beaver" make more sense? 

We've already determined that you don't do humor.  Stay out of my lane, moose boy.

[Grinning_Colossus]

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

You mean like for these reeanactors in Ohio?

Ed Anger's surviving male children. The ones who crawl back home from the mountaintop get to go to military school.

[Oexmelin]

But generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

It's true that one political message is much more overt. But you can also stand confident that there are enough variations in the representations of the Americans that the kitsch cowboy is only one part of it. And you can also stand confident that, even if the stereotype of American = Violent Cowboy does seep into other arenas, including, I am sure, international relations, existing in the minds of foreign diplomats and influencing they treat ambassadors and trade negotiations, the USA has enough resources to make itself taken seriously beyond the stereotype.

[derspiess]

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

[Malthus]

I'm deeply offended by all the people who attempt to look sexy by dressing up as middle aged, balding Jewish lawyers. Deeply. 

more people should. Of the few old Jewish lawyers I know they all have attractive wives. So somethings sexy about them.


... Hint, it's the money. The money is the thing that's sexy about them

And so the harmful stereotyping begins. 

[Jacob]

Ok I think everybody agrees that actively disrespecting the flag of a country, or symbols of an ethnicity, is offensive. That is clear, and its clarity is significant. But generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

Yeah, of course they're different things.

But it seems off to use the standards of what is harmful to Americans - who can, lest we forget, as a nation bomb any nation into the stone age if they decide to and whose individual lives are generally pretty unaffected by overseas attitudes - to judge what is harmful to Native Americans - whose treatment in the US ranges on a scale from being the targets of outright genocide to disinterested neglect at best. Turning (or rather maintaining) Native American symbols as a jokes or something not worthy of respect, makes it that much harder for them to be taken seriously when they struggle for civil rights and redress of their grievances.

[Berkut]

I post a thoughtful (at least I thought it was thoughtful) response where I, *Berkut*, actually agree with Oex and Jacob on a topic of culture of all things, and not a single response? No outrage, no agreement, nothing????

I must be losing my touch! :sob:

[Jacob]

I post a thoughtful (at least I thought it was thoughtful) response where I, *Berkut*, actually agree with Oex and Jacob on a topic of culture of all things, and not a single response? No outrage, no agreement, nothing????

I must be losing my touch! :sob:

I expect you'll convince Valmy where Oex and failed

[Barrister]

The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

That gets back to Toni's native art though.  Sure, it's okay for Bavarians to sell bavarian dressed and beer festivals.

But do they get upset seeing people in north america selling lederhousen and celebrating Octoberfest?

[The Larch]

In my (very limited) experience, the whole "cultural appropriation" brouhaha is an uniquely American thing, with maybe only a few British forays into it. It's virtually unheard of over here.