Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Jacob]

I mean Japanese and Chinese and Indian culture are also big time powerhouses now. Are those fair game?

It's kinda messy to navigate if you, you know, care about these things. I'd say that if in your local context people are in a subaltern position you might want to avoid that. So where you are at, are Asian-Americans and people of Indian descent subjected to racism and harmed by the perpetuation of stereotypes? If the answer to that question is yes - and it's probably best to get some input from them - then it's probably best to avoid trading in those stereotypes for the sake of entertainment.

I mean, you can argue I suppose that that recent O'Reilly show Chinatown segment was harmless fun, or you can say that it was unacceptable. Where ever you draw the line on that, that's a pretty good benchmark I think.

Personally, I avoid using pastiches of cultural stereotypes in general - including the US and France, as it happens - because I think it's kind of tacky.

[Valmy]

I don't see where the danger is. It is a political point: that is to say, it  is there to be discussed and debated, and the people bringing it to the forefront are trying to bring it on *their* terms, rather than ours - as Berkut mentioned. 

The danger is that a natural transference of culture and ideas is really important. Especially in my country. This gives what nationalists and conservatives love around the world: another thing to hate other people with and have yet another grievance of oppression. But hey maybe they already have a sufficient amount.

So the annual Halloween outrage fest is not a big deal. But that is small potatoes compared to things like 'how dare that other ethnicity guy have music that has elements of my culture?" things I generally see year round.

[Valmy]

Personally, I avoid using pastiches of cultural stereotypes in general - including the US and France, as it happens - because I think it's kind of tacky.

Oh it is absolutely tacky and I certainly would never do it. Though Ninjas are cool.

It's kinda messy to navigate if you, you know, care about these things. I'd say that if in your local context people are in a subaltern position you might want to avoid that. So where you are at, are Asian-Americans and people of Indian descent subjected to racism and harmed by the perpetuation of stereotypes? If the answer to that question is yes - and it's probably best to get some input from them - then it's probably best to avoid trading in those stereotypes for the sake of entertainment.

Of course all three countries export those cultures for profit and entertainment. They made the Bollywood tropes and stereotypes themselves and gleefully sent them abroad.

[Zanza]

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

I agree, but arguably that's because of cultural appropriation. The symbols of National Socialism are no longer German, but have been appropriated by White Supremacists across the world (even places like Russia). 

[Valmy]

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

[Valmy]

(even places like Russia). 

Yeah. Talk about going maximum post-modernism.

[Syt]

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

You mean like for these reeanactors in Ohio?

[HVC]

I don't know, maybe I'm turning into a grumpy old white* guy, but it seems that people are starting to ignore or forget about the importance of intent. If you're dressing up as a native to insult natives, then ya, that's wrong.  But wearing faux leather to look sexy? Is it tacky, sure is, but is it insulting? I don't think so. Dress up as a Portuguese construction worker, or a beaver petting moose riding mounty to have fun. Go nuts, I don't see how that harms me in any way.

* depending on certain people's views. I'm looking at you Ed

[Zanza]

The SS collar on some of those uniforms or the Reich-eagle with the swastika would be criminal offenses in Germany. Not sure about the Death's Head cap, probably illegal as well.

[Oexmelin]

Wow. You couldn't be more wrong. Nazi shit is big business.

I am sure it is, but it's not happening in the same circles, nor with the same enthusiastic endorsement as mainstream vendors of cuckoo clocks and beer steins in tourist shops of Munich.

[Jacob]

We are heavy handed in respecting the flag? How? By some people being angry about it on Facebook and others being supportive? I couldn't disagree with this smear more. People not liking a gesture is not the same as heavy handed enforcement.

It is my understanding that American school children pledge allegiance to the American flag (on a daily basis?) and that there is significant social pressure to follow along, even if technically you can opt out. Is that incorrect?

But if you prefer, I'll retract "heavy handed" - my point was that Americans and French (like most nationalities) taken as groups can be offended by disrespect of cultural and national symbols they care about - and there can be consequences for causing such offense due to the power of public opinion - and I think viewing arguments over dressing as Natives in that light is worthwhile, since traditional dress is evidently some of the cultural symbols Native peoples care about.

[Valmy]

The SS livery collar on some of those uniforms or the Reich-eagle with the swastika would be criminal offenses in Germany. Not sure about the Death's Head cap, probably illegal as well.

Surely not. The Death's Head Hussars are not really a Nazi thing.

[CountDeMoney]

Zoupa goes as a French fur trapper BECAUSE HE GRABS THAT PUSSY

[Valmy]

It is my understanding that American school children pledge allegiance to the American flag (on a daily basis?) and that there is significant social pressure to follow along, even if technically you can opt out. Is that incorrect?

Ah yes. Totally depends on the state and district. That is true. As a kid you have to put up with shit that sometimes as an adult I forget about.

But if you prefer, I'll retract "heavy handed" - my point was that Americans and French (like most nationalities) taken as groups can be offended by disrespect of cultural and national symbols they care about - and there can be consequences for causing such offense due to the power of public opinion - and I think viewing arguments over dressing as Natives in that light is worthwhile, since traditional dress is evidently some of the cultural symbols Native peoples care about.

Ok I think everybody agrees that actively disrespecting the flag of a country, or symbols of an ethnicity, is offensive. That is clear, and its clarity is significant. But generally I don't consider Europeans having Kitsch cowboy shit as the same thing as them parading around burning the American Flag. In the latter case they are trying to offend me to send a message.

[The Brain]

The problem with being a whiny pussy is that people may eventually start treating you like one.