Gun control in the US: what can be done?

[Berkut]

Yeah, I think that is a pretty clear invasion of privacy.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, I think that is a pretty clear invasion of privacy.

Next they'll have a registry of voters or automobile owners or tax payers!

The purpose of this is public safety.  Make it harder for straw purchases or to simply give guns away, you know like what happened in the San Bernadino case.  Of course stigmatizing gun owners is nice as well.

[The Minsky Moment]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The militia is a creature of the states; they are the ones who regulate it. Not the feds. I could bore you with a copy of each state's militia statute, but I suggest you read United States v. Miller to understand how non-radical DC v. Heller was.

Heller repudiated Miller - that was one of the things that made it radical.  Miller held that gun regulations would run afoul of the 2nd amendment if and only if the regulation impaired use or possession in such a way to impair the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated state militia.  It rejected the personal right formulation that Heller embraced.

[dps]

Yeah, I think that is a pretty clear invasion of privacy.

Next they'll have a registry of voters or automobile owners or tax payers!

The purpose of this is public safety.  Make it harder for straw purchases or to simply give guns away, you know like what happened in the San Bernadino case.  Of course stigmatizing gun owners is nice as well.

How would it stigmatize gun owners?  If everybody actually registered their guns, it would probably do more to stigmatize those who don't own guns (plus let potential thieves know which homes they could burglarize without getting shot).  And I'm not sure how it would eliminate shadow purchases or giving guns away.  After all, you have to register a car, but you can still let someone else use it.

[Scipio]

Force them to register the weapons with the government.  Make the database public like we have with sex offenders.

All non-classified government databases are public.

But the feds forcing registration of weapons would violate the 2d Amendment.

States can have gun registries, and many do.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The militia is a creature of the states; they are the ones who regulate it. Not the feds. I could bore you with a copy of each state's militia statute, but I suggest you read United States v. Miller to understand how non-radical DC v. Heller was.

Here's a link, in case your Google broke: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/307/174


How would that violate the 2nd amendment?

None of this says there can't be a federal database.  I did some looking myself, there already are databases that come from the Gun Control Act of 1968 but this information is not open to the public.  Lets make it all public, and let every one know if they are living next a gun fanatic who could be building an arsenal to murder his neighbors.

I say, let's make it public so I can know who's a gunless twat who wants their house burglarized.

[11B4V]

Yeah, I think that is a pretty clear invasion of privacy.

Of course stigmatizing gun owners is nice as well.

Hence your real agenda. 

By that maybe we should do the same with aids patients/STD or mentally ill. He'll throw in Muslims while you at it. Alcoholics, suspected gang members, etc, etc, on and on.

Great idea.

[MadImmortalMan]

Raz is technically in the militia, under US Code. 


But seriously, it's more than just 2nd amendment, or sporting or any other stuff like that.

It's like taking the sword from a samurai. Now he's a peasant. It's a class thing. Part of a classless society. There are no peasants. Only samurai.

[Razgovory]

I say, let's make it public so I can know who's a gunless twat who wants their house burglarized.

Since guns are a prime target for thieves, I'm cool with that.  It's something like  a quarter million guns are stolen every year mostly from burglaries. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm I wonder how that compares to "legitimately used a fire arm to drive away criminals" per year.  I do love the idea guns actually dissuade theft.  It's cute and quint, like the idea that your 20 shotguns are somehow going to "keep government honest".  I'm glad we could find common ground on this issue.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, I think that is a pretty clear invasion of privacy.

Next they'll have a registry of voters or automobile owners or tax payers!

The purpose of this is public safety.  Make it harder for straw purchases or to simply give guns away, you know like what happened in the San Bernadino case.  Of course stigmatizing gun owners is nice as well.

How would it stigmatize gun owners?  If everybody actually registered their guns, it would probably do more to stigmatize those who don't own guns (plus let potential thieves know which homes they could burglarize without getting shot).  And I'm not sure how it would eliminate shadow purchases or giving guns away.  After all, you have to register a car, but you can still let someone else use it.

If Twitchy Tim suddenly buys two AR-15, 3 shotguns and six handguns maybe you don't invite him to the office party?  Maybe a renter doesn't want guns on their property, and won't rent to Twitchy Tim.

[PRC]

I say, let's make it public so I can know who's a gunless twat who wants their house burglarized.

Seriously?  Is that the booze talking or "just being on the internet" talking?

[Razgovory]

Raz is technically in the militia, under US Code. 


But seriously, it's more than just 2nd amendment, or sporting or any other stuff like that.

It's like taking the sword from a samurai. Now he's a peasant. It's a class thing. Part of a classless society. There are no peasants. Only samurai.

The problem is in the mind of the gun owner.  The gun makers don't sell effect crime deterrents.  They sell fantasy.  The fantasy that guns make a man's family safer, fantasy that they can be effectively used to the government, the fantasy they make the owner more of a man.

[MadImmortalMan]

Might as well ask people to stop buying homes then.

[Razgovory]

Might as well ask people to stop buying homes then.

Children outgrow their toys, I think a small subsection of American adults can make that transition as well.

[Valmy]

I say, let's make it public so I can know who's a gunless twat who wants their house burglarized.

I don't have a gun Scipio.

At least now I know who to send the cops after once you rob me. Just a warning though my stuff is neither easily portable nor particularly valuable.

[Valmy]

Yeah, I think that is a pretty clear invasion of privacy.

Of course stigmatizing gun owners is nice as well.

Hence your real agenda. 

By that maybe we should do the same with aids patients/STD or mentally ill. He'll throw in Muslims while you at it. Alcoholics, suspected gang members, etc, etc, on and on.

Great idea.

Indeed. All of those would be much more feasible than a gun owner database.