The Paris Attack Debate Thread

[LaCroix]

What those invaders introduced to those regions was Islam.

yes, they did introduce islam. but they probably also introduced a helluva lot more. look at the norman conquest and its lasting consequences in england for something, besides religion, that an invading group can impose on a country

[Admiral Yi]

yes, they did introduce islam. but they also introduced a helluva lot more. look at the norman conquest and its lasting consequences in england for something, besides religion, that an invading group can impose on a country

What else, besides a language and a religion, did the Muslim conquerors introduce in Egypt?

[LaCroix]

What else, besides a language and a religion, did the Muslim conquerors introduce in Egypt?

i added "probably" before your post.  i don't know, that's a question for someone else. but this is going away from my earlier point that cultures influence religion. you may have taken that too literally - a culture won't change the scripture, but it certainly changes the interpretation of scripture. islamic nations today aren't as brutal as they were a thousand years ago, same with christian nations. but christian nations largely comprise of the west, which has enjoyed a pretty nice dominance over the world.

[Martinus]

Yes, and criminals murder people because they had bad childhood. Jesus Christ, can you be more of a caricature, LaCroix? 

[LaCroix]

Yes, and criminals murder people because they had bad childhood. Jesus Christ, can you be more of a caricature, LaCroix? 

not always! some are just nuts, heat of passion, etc. a caricature of what? the left? leftist stereotypes usually say all cultures are on equal footing

[Crazy_Ivan80]

i dunno, 1000 years?

in that case these muslim countries should blame themselves/arabs instead of the west since during those 1000 years they were ruled by muslim empires for about 900 of them.

[Syt]

People killed by terrorist attacks in Western Europe:

[Tamas]

The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation. Unlike Christianity.

I think this was a HUGE advantage in the early times for Islam and offered huge benefits. But the laws and rulings have gradually become obsolete compared to changing circumstances and level of civilisation. Christianity was able to adjust because the teachings can be very flexibly bended to suit whatever material needs, without invoking a lot of valid criticism. Doesn't seem to be true for Islam.

[Zanza]

The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation.

Really? I thought that a lot of the legislative rules is in hadiths not the quran and is up for interpretation by muftis who then issue fatwas on how they interpret the scripture.

[Tamas]

The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation.

Really? I thought that a lot of the legislative rules is in hadiths not the quran and is up for interpretation by muftis who then issue fatwas on how they interpret the scripture.

Still, the hadits are claimed to be from Mohamed, and you do not have quotes from Jesus on how to run minute affairs of society. Not in the hundreds, anyways.

[garbon]

The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation.

Really? I thought that a lot of the legislative rules is in hadiths not the quran and is up for interpretation by muftis who then issue fatwas on how they interpret the scripture.

Still, the hadits are claimed to be from Mohamed, and you do not have quotes from Jesus on how to run minute affairs of society. Not in the hundreds, anyways.

I think you are grasping at straws. Judaism has a lot of laws for society, tons of which can be found in the Old Testament.

Islam is also quite capable of shedding laws when it wants to. There's a fair amount in the Quran about the rights of women that often seems disregarded.

[Tamas]

Islam being more practical when guiding and ruling everyday life is hardly my unique theory.

And Judaism didn't actually conquer the world or founded modern society either.

[garbon]

Very convincing stuff.

[Tamas]

If you want to dismiss the claim that Islam's more practical and micro-managing approach to everyday life has made it too rigid to keep up with the constant change of Christianity-based societies, you will have to do better than pointing to Judaism. Much better.

[alfred russel]

I think you are grasping at straws. Judaism has a lot of laws for society, tons of which can be found in the Old Testament.

Islam is also quite capable of shedding laws when it wants to. There's a fair amount in the Quran about the rights of women that often seems disregarded.

Judaism has lots of laws, but judaism is contained in ways that Christianity and Islam are not--it is a nationality based religion that isn't out to convert the world.

Christianity inherited the old testament from Judaism which contains those laws, but the basic theology of all but a tiny minority of christian denominations is that the purpose of those laws were fulfilled by the coming of Jesus and no longer need to be followed. The acts of the apostles in the new testament documents the discarding of old testament jewish law in early church tradition, and christians trying to follow jewish old testament have at times been persecuted as heretics. Since the new testament is rather vague, and jesus in particular says very little in the new testament, there isn't much to go off of.