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The Paris Attack Debate Thread

Started by Admiral Yi, November 13, 2015, 08:04:35 PM

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LaCroix

#885
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 22, 2015, 02:02:02 AMWhat those invaders introduced to those regions was Islam.

yes, they did introduce islam. but they probably also introduced a helluva lot more. look at the norman conquest and its lasting consequences in england for something, besides religion, that an invading group can impose on a country

Admiral Yi

Quote from: LaCroix on November 22, 2015, 02:06:52 AM
yes, they did introduce islam. but they also introduced a helluva lot more. look at the norman conquest and its lasting consequences in england for something, besides religion, that an invading group can impose on a country

What else, besides a language and a religion, did the Muslim conquerors introduce in Egypt?

LaCroix

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 22, 2015, 02:11:45 AMWhat else, besides a language and a religion, did the Muslim conquerors introduce in Egypt?

i added "probably" before your post.  :D i don't know, that's a question for someone else. but this is going away from my earlier point that cultures influence religion. you may have taken that too literally - a culture won't change the scripture, but it certainly changes the interpretation of scripture. islamic nations today aren't as brutal as they were a thousand years ago, same with christian nations. but christian nations largely comprise of the west, which has enjoyed a pretty nice dominance over the world.

Martinus

Yes, and criminals murder people because they had bad childhood. Jesus Christ, can you be more of a caricature, LaCroix?  :rolleyes:

LaCroix

Quote from: Martinus on November 22, 2015, 02:17:15 AM
Yes, and criminals murder people because they had bad childhood. Jesus Christ, can you be more of a caricature, LaCroix?  :rolleyes:

not always! some are just nuts, heat of passion, etc. a caricature of what? the left? leftist stereotypes usually say all cultures are on equal footing

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: LaCroix on November 22, 2015, 01:31:54 AM

i dunno, 1000 years?

in that case these muslim countries should blame themselves/arabs instead of the west since during those 1000 years they were ruled by muslim empires for about 900 of them.

Syt

People killed by terrorist attacks in Western Europe:

I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Tamas

The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation. Unlike Christianity.

I think this was a HUGE advantage in the early times for Islam and offered huge benefits. But the laws and rulings have gradually become obsolete compared to changing circumstances and level of civilisation. Christianity was able to adjust because the teachings can be very flexibly bended to suit whatever material needs, without invoking a lot of valid criticism. Doesn't seem to be true for Islam.

Zanza

Quote from: Tamas on November 22, 2015, 06:11:22 AM
The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation.
Really? I thought that a lot of the legislative rules is in hadiths not the quran and is up for interpretation by muftis who then issue fatwas on how they interpret the scripture.

Tamas

Quote from: Zanza on November 22, 2015, 06:41:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 22, 2015, 06:11:22 AM
The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation.
Really? I thought that a lot of the legislative rules is in hadiths not the quran and is up for interpretation by muftis who then issue fatwas on how they interpret the scripture.

Still, the hadits are claimed to be from Mohamed, and you do not have quotes from Jesus on how to run minute affairs of society. Not in the hundreds, anyways.

garbon

Quote from: Tamas on November 22, 2015, 07:35:47 AM
Quote from: Zanza on November 22, 2015, 06:41:08 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 22, 2015, 06:11:22 AM
The "whatever reason" why Muslim countries are more prone to use religion in legislation is the very specific reason of their religion being quite clear on how to apply it in legislation.
Really? I thought that a lot of the legislative rules is in hadiths not the quran and is up for interpretation by muftis who then issue fatwas on how they interpret the scripture.

Still, the hadits are claimed to be from Mohamed, and you do not have quotes from Jesus on how to run minute affairs of society. Not in the hundreds, anyways.

I think you are grasping at straws. Judaism has a lot of laws for society, tons of which can be found in the Old Testament.

Islam is also quite capable of shedding laws when it wants to. There's a fair amount in the Quran about the rights of women that often seems disregarded.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tamas

Islam being more practical when guiding and ruling everyday life is hardly my unique theory.

And Judaism didn't actually conquer the world or founded modern society either.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tamas

If you want to dismiss the claim that Islam's more practical and micro-managing approach to everyday life has made it too rigid to keep up with the constant change of Christianity-based societies, you will have to do better than pointing to Judaism. Much better.

alfred russel

Quote from: garbon on November 22, 2015, 07:49:41 AM

I think you are grasping at straws. Judaism has a lot of laws for society, tons of which can be found in the Old Testament.

Islam is also quite capable of shedding laws when it wants to. There's a fair amount in the Quran about the rights of women that often seems disregarded.

Judaism has lots of laws, but judaism is contained in ways that Christianity and Islam are not--it is a nationality based religion that isn't out to convert the world.

Christianity inherited the old testament from Judaism which contains those laws, but the basic theology of all but a tiny minority of christian denominations is that the purpose of those laws were fulfilled by the coming of Jesus and no longer need to be followed. The acts of the apostles in the new testament documents the discarding of old testament jewish law in early church tradition, and christians trying to follow jewish old testament have at times been persecuted as heretics. Since the new testament is rather vague, and jesus in particular says very little in the new testament, there isn't much to go off of.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014