Shootings and explosions in Paris

[Josquius]

quote author=Martinus link=topic=13510.msg925847#msg925847 date=1447534083]

Good to see Charlie Hebdo staff keeping it classy. One of the cartoonists penned a quick bit for social media to point out that while people are sending their prayers, Paris doesn't need anymore religion in it.

I hope you are not being sarcastic. That's an awesome response.
[/quote]
Yeah. That's pretty good. Praying for Paris is like offering a box of chocolates to somebody who has just been diagnosed as a diabetic

[Eddie Teach]

And Tyr making an analogy is kinda like Martinus making an analogy.

[Admiral Yi]

 

[Solmyr]

I think it's an American vs. European thing here, we're much less used to religion actively used and people offering prayers are not common here.

Yeah I know, it makes me slightly uncomfortable too.
But even apart from that it's not a hostile message at all.

Me too, and yes, I don't understand Garbon's response to it and certainly not Martinus' response to the response (but that's not uncommon).

It's spite thrown back at people offering their condolences. Or are condolences only to be offered in the 'right' way? It is no different from people saying they are keeping good thoughts - unless one is making a ridiculous link between the religion of the attackers and the religion of those making prayers.

It's like offering consolation sex to a rape victim.

[Martinus]

I also love that garbon is suddenly firmly in the camp of saying that when communicating a message one is free to ignore cultural context in which the message is going to be received by the addressee, as long as there is a positive intention behind it. 

[Martinus]

I think it's an American vs. European thing here, we're much less used to religion actively used and people offering prayers are not common here.

Yeah I know, it makes me slightly uncomfortable too.
But even apart from that it's not a hostile message at all.

Me too, and yes, I don't understand Garbon's response to it and certainly not Martinus' response to the response (but that's not uncommon).

It's spite thrown back at people offering their condolences. Or are condolences only to be offered in the 'right' way? It is no different from people saying they are keeping good thoughts - unless one is making a ridiculous link between the religion of the attackers and the religion of those making prayers.

It's like offering consolation sex to a rape victim.

It's even worse, given that the French have not just been victimised by religious fanatics, but are generally anti-religious.

It's like offering straight consolation sex to a lesbian raped by a man.

[garbon]

When did we start a broken analogy brigade?

Well noted for the future though. If Marti suffers a personal tragedy, best response is to have no response.

[alfred russel]

You don't think Europeans are less religious than Americans?  When is the last time you heard a French President say something like "God Bless you and God Bless France" at the end of their speeches to the nation?

France isn't representative of the entire continent.

"European" also includes Poland, Greece, Romania, Croatia, parts of Turkey, etc. It is also quite common in Europe for religions to receive state support and for there to be religious expression in national anthems and symbols. Even in uber secular France, my understanding is that Catholic schools receive state funding--which does not happen in the US. In other cases, there is religious instruction in schools.

So...its more complicated.

[Duque de Bragança]

Europe does not include Turkey, specially with islamists like Erdogan.

[Liep]

France isn't representative of the entire continent.

"European" also includes Poland, Greece, Romania, Croatia, parts of Turkey, etc. It is also quite common in Europe for religions to receive state support and for there to be religious expression in national anthems and symbols. Even in uber secular France, my understanding is that Catholic schools receive state funding--which does not happen in the US. In other cases, there is religious instruction in schools.

So...its more complicated.

Not that complicated. When a European from Western Europe says European he does not generally include Eastern Europe. Maybe Poland, because they have behaved somewhat, but no one else from 'there'. Is it wrong? Maybe. But it wasn't until about 2005 that EU expanded east.

State funding religious school is not condoning the religion they teach but the education they provide. We do it here too if they live up to some standard of education.

[Duque de Bragança]

Even for Central and Eastern Europe, it's debatable. Czechs are not religious for instance.

[Josquius]

You don't think Europeans are less religious than Americans?  When is the last time you heard a French President say something like "God Bless you and God Bless France" at the end of their speeches to the nation?

France isn't representative of the entire continent.

"European" also includes Poland, Greece, Romania, Croatia, parts of Turkey, etc. It is also quite common in Europe for religions to receive state support and for there to be religious expression in national anthems and symbols. Even in uber secular France, my understanding is that Catholic schools receive state funding--which does not happen in the US. In other cases, there is religious instruction in schools.

So...its more complicated.

Certainly true that France is towards the extreme of irreligious but it is pretty accurate to say europe is less religious than the US.

[Duque de Bragança]

Back to topic, there is still one terrorist being hunted, presumed to be the last of the eight, he might have crossed the Franco-Belgian border and went to Molenbeek, the notorious islamist suburb of Brussels, for all we know since his name was not yet on a search list. Two Molenbeek residents, holders of French passports, have been identified as perpetrators of the attacks. Five more Molenbeek residents were arrested there following Belgian police operations.
Name of the terrorist having a French passport has been revealed. [spoiler]• Ismaël Omar Mostefaï[/spoiler]
No real surprise, petty suburban delinquent, convicted 8 times, but still no jail time (bleeding heart judges?), yet listed as radical (classé S). 

Earlier, a car with Kalashnikov rifles was found in the eastern suburb of Montreuil, bordering Paris, not far from République and Nation where the attacks took place. The car, a black Seat Leon, was used for the terrorist attacks.

At least a dozen nationalities among the foreign victims: three Belgians, one Spaniard, two Portuguese, one Briton, two Romanians, two Tunisians, three Chileans, one American, two Algerians, one Moroccan, two Mexicans and probably a Swede.

PS: French link with more details and names, since the info is now somewhat outdated

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/11/15/97001-20151115FILWWW00118-attentats-de-paris-une-vingtaine-de-victimes-etrangeres.php

[mongers]

Duque, thanks for that and for being our news stringer on the ground.   

[Admiral Yi]

It's like offering consolation sex to a rape victim.

It would be exactly like this if the well-wishers were offering to shoot and bomb some French people out of sympathy.  The terrorists didn't pray their victims to death.