Shootings and explosions in Paris

[Duque de Bragança]

Map of the attacks. This was in the trendy Eastern Paris, lots of cafés, venues and lots of youths on a Friday night. The closest touristic sight is the Père-Lachaise cemetary. Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, Champs Elysées i.e the golden mile is out of the map. (west). Louvre museum as shown on the map is not far away, same goes for the Elysée palace (French presidency seat).

As for Saint-Denis, it's a notorious banlieue, though the stadium area is actually nice. French kings are buried in a not so nice area, not far from there.t

Hollande already showed up at the Bataclan and had a press conference to announce the state of emergency and other steps.
Two explosions were heard during the France-Germany football game by the audience at the Stade de France, and on TV as well it seems but nobody seems to have realised.

[mongers]

The West needs to start taking real measures to stop this. The Arab muslim worlds needs to be set on fire, asap.

Do you not have the cart before horse:


Much of the Arab muslim world is on fire hence what's happening, as a consequence the West and the surviving Arab governments need to start taking real measures to end the war in Syria, conquer IS in Iraq and Syria and extinquish the sources of radicalism in their state institutions and populations.

Something like that, agreed. IMO the biggest push needs to come from Arab/Muslim governments, not the US/west. The west can help with supplies, equipment, etc. but Islam needs to take the lead in sorting this stuff out. If the west takes on much of it then it's seen as outsiders meddling and provides more impetus for radicals to take action.

Indeed, though I've no idea how this can be achieved?

One short term aim, end the war in Syria, the West has to swallow a little pride viz Putin, force the other Arab countries to peace talks and end the fighting.  If that means leaving Assad in power for a while longer so be it, but end the war asap, then set about killing the existing Jihadis and forcing them back into the shadows.

After that, how do you solve Iraq? it's nearly impossible.

And Afghanistan is verging on being a basket case.

[Duque de Bragança]

According to some reports by survivors, attackers claimed their attacks were a payback for the French participation on the war vs Daesh in Syria.

[OttoVonBismarck]

That's possible, but weren't the first French airstrikes just in September? I suspect these guys were already planning this by that point.

Anyway, the only way to quickly end the Syrian war would be to get Assad, the FAS/non-ISIS rebels, and ISIS split the country up. Even then the ideology of the ISIS caliphate requires continuous expansion.

[Grallon]

...

Do we simply accept that we'll always suffer terrorist attacks, because terrorists can easily take advantage of our free and open societies?

...

It's too late for that - there are millions of them within our borders already; and with the Syrian crisis there are hundreds of thousands more on the way.  Are they all blood thirsty jihadis?  Of course not - yet as we are witnessing even now - all it takes are a few hundreds, well organized, and you'll keep having to live through that kind of nightmare.

But of course the apologists haven't begun their bleeting just yet - no doubt realizing they'd be shouted down at this point.  But never fear, within the week we'll see and hear them explaining how this bloody mess really is the West's fault.  They'll line up all sorts of justifications in a feeble attempt to alleviate the scope of what happened - and will go on happening.

The bile is rising up at the mere thought of the spectacle of their cowardly delusions.



G.

[mongers]

That's possible, but weren't the first French airstrikes just in September? I suspect these guys were already planning this by that point.

Anyway, the only way to quickly end the Syrian war would be to get Assad, the FAS/non-ISIS rebels, and ISIS split the country up. Even then the ideology of the ISIS caliphate requires continuous expansion.

Well yes widespread ceasefires would amount to that, then we could have a 'great power' induced 'peace process' until one side gets the upper hand in a future conflict, rather like Croatia regained it's strenght and then went on the offensive. The trick would be to get the Syrian state and rebel groups to engage ISIS in a renewed conflict and make sure IS isn't one of the last two men standing. 

[Duque de Bragança]

I agree, if not for Syria and the infrequent French bombing runs, they would have claimed something else such as "French persecution of Muslims with their infidel secular laws" or some lingo like that.

[OttoVonBismarck]

That's possible, but weren't the first French airstrikes just in September? I suspect these guys were already planning this by that point.

Anyway, the only way to quickly end the Syrian war would be to get Assad, the FAS/non-ISIS rebels, and ISIS split the country up. Even then the ideology of the ISIS caliphate requires continuous expansion.

Well yes widespread ceasefires would amount to that, then we could have a 'great power' induced 'peace process' until one side gets the upper hand in a future conflict, rather like Croatia regained it's strenght and then went on the offensive. The trick would be to get the Syrian state and rebel groups to engage ISIS in a renewed conflict and make sure IS isn't one of the last two men standing.

I don't see how your plan brings the Syrian war to a close anytime soon.

[Malthus]

Just heard about this. Terrible.    The whole world must stand with France today. 

[mongers]

That's possible, but weren't the first French airstrikes just in September? I suspect these guys were already planning this by that point.

Anyway, the only way to quickly end the Syrian war would be to get Assad, the FAS/non-ISIS rebels, and ISIS split the country up. Even then the ideology of the ISIS caliphate requires continuous expansion.

Well yes widespread ceasefires would amount to that, then we could have a 'great power' induced 'peace process' until one side gets the upper hand in a future conflict, rather like Croatia regained it's strenght and then went on the offensive. The trick would be to get the Syrian state and rebel groups to engage ISIS in a renewed conflict and make sure IS isn't one of the last two men standing.

I don't see how your plan brings the Syrian war to a close anytime soon.

So what does end the Syria war?

I mean it's as old as the Spanish civil war now.

[Barrister]

...

Do we simply accept that we'll always suffer terrorist attacks, because terrorists can easily take advantage of our free and open societies?

...

It's too late for that - there are millions of them within our borders already; and with the Syrian crisis there are hundreds of thousands more on the way.  Are they all blood thirsty jihadis?  Of course not - yet as we are witnessing even now - all it takes are a few hundreds, well organized, and you'll keep having to live through that kind of nightmare.

But of course the apologists haven't begun their bleeting just yet - no doubt realizing they'd be shouted down at this point.  But never fear, within the week we'll see and hear them explaining how this bloody mess really is the West's fault.  They'll line up all sorts of justifications in a feeble attempt to alleviate the scope of what happened - and will go on happening.

The bile is rising up at the mere thought of the spectacle of their cowardly delusions.

Just shut up Grallon, at least for one day.

[CountDeMoney]

Just shut up Grallon, at least for one day.

LOL, Wire Service Noob.

[OttoVonBismarck]

So what does end the Syria war?

I mean it's as old as the Spanish civil war now.

I dunno, I think that's hard to predict. I don't think anything ends it quickly short of a massive, similar in scale to the 2003 Iraq invasion, invasion of Syria by the United States and NATO allies and a follow up occupation. During said occupation we'd be fighting a vicious insurgency, but the "civil war" would be over.

Sri Lanka fought a civil war for like 35 years or something. There's no reason to assume the Syrian war ends in a generation. It could, though. I just don't pretend to have a crystal ball. Based on what I see right now, as long as Russia backs Assad he's going nowhere. As long as there is no serious opposition to them on the ground in their territory ISIS is going nowhere. So to me it looks like it'll be going on for awhile.

[mongers]

Just shut up Grallon, at least for one day.

LOL, Wire Service Noob.

And the prodigal non returns, Money glad to hear from you, how's things? 

[mongers]

Just a reminder that the Paris prosecuter leading the investigation has said there are still assaliants on the loose.