Who would you vote if the 2016 election is Trump vs. Sanders

[Razgovory]

They defaulted in the 1930's on their debts to us.  Damn conservatives.

[Jaron]

No one wants Trump to be president. Sorry Tim.

[alfred russel]

What countries do you have in mind?

Most of Latin America at some point or another.  Big chunks of Europe, to lesser and greater degrees.

You were asked which western countries you meant and you fall back on Latin America? 

Ouch.

They certainly aren't eastern. You are holding Yi to an unfair standard. On the one hand he is being asked to report places turned into basket cases by left wing politics, and on the other hand is criticized for presumably picking a place of basket cases.

It is worth remembering that for instance Argentina had one of the highest per capita incomes in the world--higher than most of Western Europe--in parts of the early 20th century.

[MadImmortalMan]

Latin America's economic history consists of somebody builds a thing, for the next fifty years the GDP of the nation is spent fighting over who controls the thing. Then somebody comes along and builds another thing. Now there are TWO things to fight over. OMG!

If they had instead used their productive energy to build more things they'd all be rich by now.

[DGuller]

I don't think bringing up Latin American countries was fair.  I don't think many people consider them western.  For whatever reason, western has grown to mean western Europe + US + Canada.

That said, while there aren't many, if any, Venezuela stories in western countries, plenty of western countries had experienced long periods of malaise due to dabbling too far into leftist economic policies.  We may have over-corrected in the last few decades, but let's not forget that there was something to correct in the first place.

[crazy canuck]

What countries do you have in mind?

Most of Latin America at some point or another.  Big chunks of Europe, to lesser and greater degrees.

You were asked which western countries you meant and you fall back on Latin America? 

Ouch.

They certainly aren't eastern. You are holding Yi to an unfair standard. On the one hand he is being asked to report places turned into basket cases by left wing politics, and on the other hand is criticized for presumably picking a place of basket cases.

It is worth remembering that for instance Argentina had one of the highest per capita incomes in the world--higher than most of Western Europe--in parts of the early 20th century.

No his claim was specifically about western countries.  I agree he set a standard for himself that he could not meet.

[alfred russel]

I don't think bringing up Latin American countries was fair.  I don't think many people consider them western.  For whatever reason, western has grown to mean western Europe + US + Canada.

That said, while there aren't many, if any, Venezuela stories in western countries, plenty of western countries had experienced long periods of malaise due to dabbling too far into leftist economic policies.  We may have over-corrected in the last few decades, but let's not forget that there was something to correct in the first place.

That is a very limited definition of the western world, and it is confined to some of the most wealthy first world countries in the world--ie, the countries that generally haven't been run into the ground by anyone.

Your definition excludes from the western world not just latin america, but also much of europe. Latin America seems perfectly reasonable to include imo--they primarily speak european languages, and have significant european ancestry and culture (especially in the case of the country I was highlighting--Argentina). Also, they are in the western hemisphere, which seems kind of relevant. At the least people shouldn't be jumping down Yi's throat for considering Latin America western. If you wanted him to confine himself to western europe, the US, and Canada, that should have been made clear to him.

[crazy canuck]

I don't think bringing up Latin American countries was fair.  I don't think many people consider them western.  For whatever reason, western has grown to mean western Europe + US + Canada.

That said, while there aren't many, if any, Venezuela stories in western countries, plenty of western countries had experienced long periods of malaise due to dabbling too far into leftist economic policies.  We may have over-corrected in the last few decades, but let's not forget that there was something to correct in the first place.

That is a very limited definition of the western world, and it is confined to some of the most wealthy first world countries in the world--ie, the countries that generally haven't been run into the ground by anyone.

Your definition excludes from the western world not just latin america, but also much of europe. Latin America seems perfectly reasonable to include imo--they primarily speak european languages, and have significant european ancestry and culture (especially in the case of the country I was highlighting--Argentina). Also, they are in the western hemisphere, which seems kind of relevant. At the least people shouldn't be jumping down Yi's throat for considering Latin America western. If you wanted him to confine himself to western europe, the US, and Canada, that should have been made clear to him.

Ok, so when we talk about the west we will be sure to remember you immediately think  - El Salvador

[jimmy olsen]

I don't think bringing up Latin American countries was fair.  I don't think many people consider them western.  For whatever reason, western has grown to mean western Europe + US + Canada.

That said, while there aren't many, if any, Venezuela stories in western countries, plenty of western countries had experienced long periods of malaise due to dabbling too far into leftist economic policies.  We may have over-corrected in the last few decades, but let's not forget that there was something to correct in the first place.

That is a very limited definition of the western world, and it is confined to some of the most wealthy first world countries in the world--ie, the countries that generally haven't been run into the ground by anyone.

America falls in that category, don't you think?

[alfred russel]

Ok, so when we talk about the west we will be sure to remember you immediately think  - El Salvador

I rarely think about El Salvador in any context.

But you really don't think of Argentina, Chile, and Brazil as western countries?

[Valmy]

I think they are western. They are just kind of a backwater like Belgium or something.

[DGuller]

Ok, so when we talk about the west we will be sure to remember you immediately think  - El Salvador

I rarely think about El Salvador in any context.

But you really don't think of Argentina, Chile, and Brazil as western countries?

I don't.  For a grouping to make sense, it has to be expansive enough to be a group, but not so expansive that it's too heterogeneous to be of any use. 

The "western" refers to west Europe, not western hemisphere.  US and Canada are usually included because they have been intertwined in western European politics to a much greater degree than other countries in the Americas.  I think the most widely understood grouping is that of Cold War era NATO countries plus a couple of more countries that were not part of NATO for idiosyncratic reasons.

[Valmy]

Latin America is culturally tied to Spain and Portugal, aren't those in Western Europe? What about the Caribbean? Surely the Dutch island possessions are western...and if they are why wouldn't Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

[DGuller]

Latin America is culturally tied to Spain and Portugal, aren't those in Western Europe? What about the Caribbean? Surely the Dutch island possessions are western...and if they are why wouldn't Haiti and the Dominican Republic?

We're all culturally tied to each other if you look back far enough.

[Eddie Teach]

"The West" is not a construction primarily based on geography. It includes Australia and not the Caribbean.