The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

das Handy

[derspiess]

Creepy-- James Boggess was the name of my high school biology teacher who passed away the year I graduated.  Awesome guy, very entertaining.  One of those teachers that could make you look forward to a class you otherwise wouldn't.

[Ed Anger]

Hey, I think I found the perfect girl for Seedy.  Apparently she works at a Burger King in Columbus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g67z_xBe07Q#t=35

DING FRIES ARE DONE

[Ideologue]

Good one Vinnie.

That's a pretty great joke.

[Caliga]

There are Pennsylvania Dutch named Goldberg who aren't Jews. 

I WAS MAKING A JOKE

Ok, but I was surprised to learn that myself when my dad told me.

[Syt]

Germany requires that Turkish wives/husbands who want to move from Turkey to Germany to live with their partners have to pass a basic German test. This was meant to increase integration of Turkish migrants and to avoid ghettoization where Turkish families with little to no knowledge of German stick together, and also to help reduce cases where Turkish residents "import" a Turkish wife.

The European Court of Justice has now ruled that this is not in line with European law and hinders integration and quality of life of Turkish immigrants to Germany.

It does seem like that law is more about putting additional obstacles in the way of Turkish immigrants than expediting integration.

I agree. Still, I'm somewhat torn on the topic.

The German certificate requested is the lowest one there is; you can get it by just sitting in the course.

At the same time, if, like in this case, you're from a rural part of the country, and haven't learned how to read and write, and have four children to raise, then this requirement is insurmountable.

At the same time I can't help but wonder how well integrated such a person can actually become when she moves here?

Reasons why this law was enacted are cases where women are kept at home or in a tightly controlled Turkish-only environment, and where children are confronted with the German language the first time when they come to kindergarten (or, if they don't go to kindergarten, school) - studies find the knowledge of German among kids from migrant families highly deficient in a large percentage of cases (significantly more so with Turkish families than, say, Serbs or Croats).

That said, I think the better way of fostering integration is to create positive incentives of learning the language instead of using coercion. The problem with that is, though, that if you are a Turk in Vienna, you can go about your daily life without any knowledge of German; and you will only need a person or two who can translate for you if you have to conduct official business at the town hall or something (and chances are that someone there will be able to talk to you in Turkish). So there's not much incentive for them to learn German.

Now, most immigrant families understand that it's good for their kids to learn German, but that often only starts when they enter a bi- or multilingual kindergarten.

[Josquius]

I've often pondered whether requiring some sort of English certificate (or welsh or Gaelic to be fair. But hardly likely) could be a good cheat to cut down on low grade EU immigration.
I mean, it is kind of fair in a way. Language is already a barrier to Brits doing the same in other European countries. Plus it would placate the anti immigrant crowd a bit and not involve actually leaving the eu

[Caliga]

I don't understand why you'd move to a country and not want to learn the local language.

I don't think people should be forced to, and also don't think they should give up their roots, but if you've no interest in integrating with the local culture, what are you doing there in the first place?  Exceptions made for political refugees, I guess.

[Josquius]

€€€€€€€

[Syt]

I think it's two edged. People from other cultures come here to work.

In part they may not integrate, because people reject them.

In part they're rejected because they don't integrate.

It can be self-reinforcing, and needs to be tackled at some point, but I honestly have no idea how.

That said, I think the situation is not as dire as right wingers would want us to believe, and also not as peachy as the lefties say.

However, it's telling if a flyer for a "job orientation week" offers half of its sessions in languages other than German.

Job and school, obviously, can be among the biggest drivers of integration, if the work and school environments themselves are diverse.

[The Brain]

I don't understand why you'd move to a country and not want to learn the local language.

I don't think people should be forced to, and also don't think they should give up their roots, but if you've no interest in integrating with the local culture, what are you doing there in the first place?  Exceptions made for political refugees, I guess.

In retrospect, do you think it was wise to go native in Kentucky?

[Caliga]

Yes.  Yes I do.  Y'all.

[Valmy]

I will believe you have gone native when you start becoming obsessed with ewe kay and dye yourself blue for the SEC basketball tournament.

[derspiess]

And if that day comes, Cal, I hope you understand that whatever we decide to do to you will be out of compassion, not malice.

[Josquius]

This capsule hotel is terrible.
And there is a guy snoring very loudly nearby:
I am tempted to track him down and throw something at him