The Off Topic Topic

[Jacob]

You can't really infer that from the sign. It only says that she's miffed about being cast as Dora.

I most certainly can infer that.

As a point of fact, by the way, she's saying she shouldn't automatically be the #1 choice for Dora just because she is Mexican, not that she is miffed that she was cast in the role. There's a difference.

[garbon]

Oh, but let me guess.  You're not swayed.  MY EYES ARE STILL ROLLING.

You're right. Because if you follow that line of thinking, there isn't much need to have many minority actors as they generally wouldn't be useful as main characters in any "period" pieces - given that most of said movies (unless explicitly on a racial topic like slavery, civil rights, us internment camps - or taking place in a country with a majority non-white population) are from the point of view of white people.

Segregated non-whites then, let's continue to do so now in our films for the sake of history. Pretty fucking low when you are arguing for maintaining history in an entirely fictional work like Captain America.

[alfred russel]

A picture of a high school girl is posted, and not a single lewd comment is made? Languish is dying after all.

[garbon]

A picture of a high school girl is posted, and not a single lewd comment is made? Languish is dying after all.

Or racist.

[Grey Fox]

Languish is old. We are not interested in 14 years old.

Except Ed but he's busy.

[garbon]

however, if it was a real play, and they didn't cast an hispanic in the role, then loads of people would be upset about it.

Backwards thinking...though apparently minorities have to fight for the meager parts they can get. No sense in letting the few "historically consistent" nonwhite roles go to a white person.

[LaCroix]

Backwards thinking...though apparently minorities have to fight for the meager parts they can get. No sense in letting the few "historically consistent" nonwhite roles go to a white person.

but is it backwards thinking to expect caucasian actors to play as generals in a movie on, say, gettysburg? are minorities really fighting over roles in hollywood? for your typical movie, it usually doesn't matter the race of the actor, but there are certain movies where it would be plain weird. i mean, come on, if a black queen elizabeth knighted an asian francis drake after he seized a spanish galleon full of irish, scandis, africans, asians and polynesians, it would be flat out distracting. if you mean your standard modern movie that's not based on anything, that makes more sense

[alfred russel]

I'm going to step back for a moment and see if there is some perspective from which Ide isn't a virulent racist.

Could an audience be confused by a white Dora the Explorer? Rationally, of course not.

However, take the case of Jean-Luc Picard on Star Trek. He was written as a white French guy. He was played by a white British guy with a British accent. Now you might think a rational person would understand that they held auditions and the guy that was best for the role happened to be British with the corresponding accent. Nevertheless, these are the theories I've read on languish in the last few days to explain that accent:

-He is actually speaking upper class French and a universal translator somehow converts it into upper class English for the audience.

- The French language is displaced by the increasing universality of English, and English is the future language of France.

-In the future, all sorts of negative characteristics will be eradicated. As some of these characteristics are stereotyped to the French, the French language will be eradicated as well.

Perhaps they should have gotten Gérard Depardieu to play Picard. Sure it would have been horrifying to see him squeeze into the Star Trek uniform. And yeah it would have been awkward when he showed up on the bridge completely tanked and urinated on the floor while at battle stations because the bathrooms were locked for a few minutes. The episode where he skipped out on exploring some strange new world to fly to Russia to pick up a Russian passport for tax avoidance would also be odd. But at least people wouldn't think the French language was cleansed from the earth with all sorts of other evils.

[Jacob]

A picture of a high school girl is posted, and not a single lewd comment is made? Languish is dying after all.

I took Malthus' "Donkey Show" comment to be both lewd and racist.

[garbon]

Backwards thinking...though apparently minorities have to fight for the meager parts they can get. No sense in letting the few "historically consistent" nonwhite roles go to a white person.

but is it backwards thinking to expect caucasian actors to play as generals in a movie on, say, gettysburg? are minorities really fighting over roles in hollywood? for your typical movie, it usually doesn't matter the race of the actor, but there are certain movies where it would be plain weird. i mean, come on, if a black queen elizabeth knighted an asian francis drake after he seized a spanish galleon full of irish, scandis, africans, asians and polynesians, it would be flat out distracting. if you mean your standard modern movie that's not based on anything, that makes more sense

They would be fighting over roles if the Ides had their way. Look what he's arguing for with very fictional works like superhero films.

I've mixed feelings on historical movies because for the most part, we are still fictionalizing a lot yet it is the race of the characters that is taboo to mess with.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm going to step back for a moment and see if there is some perspective from which Ide isn't a virulent racist.

For Pete's sake.  How is it virulently racist to say certain historical and fictional characters belong to a race?

[alfred russel]

A picture of a high school girl is posted, and not a single lewd comment is made? Languish is dying after all.

I took Malthus' "Donkey Show" comment to be both lewd and racist.

Good point.

Yi, I wasn't serious. 

[Ideologue]

Oh, but let me guess.  You're not swayed.  MY EYES ARE STILL ROLLING.

You're right. Because if you follow that line of thinking, there isn't much need to have many minority actors as they generally wouldn't be useful as main characters in any "period" pieces - given that most of said movies (unless explicitly on a racial topic like slavery, civil rights, us internment camps - or taking place in a country with a majority non-white population) are from the point of view of white people.

Segregated non-whites then, let's continue to do so now in our films for the sake of history. Pretty fucking low when you are arguing for maintaining history in an entirely fictional work like Captain America.

Do you seriously--seriously--want to have a movie so insensitive and insulting as to pretend segregation didn't happen?

It could have its place, I suppose, and Captain America would be one of the better arenas to experiment with it.  But would you be so sanguine if, as I suggested earlier, Garett Hedlund really were cast as the King of Wakanda?

Regarding the lack of people of color in period pieces, that is a negative unintended side effect of historicity--although, as you suggest, making movies about Not Europe would be a great thing.

TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION: Is The Emperor's New Groove, in fact, horrifically racist?  Possibly.  But voice acting is different, and it is Disney's most cartoonish cartoon.

Jake: I was not ridiculing her, I was disagreeing with her assertion, though I suppose I concede her point that a high school play--due to a number of factors, not least being a shallow talent pool, the others being "it sucks anyway" and "who cares?"--is one of the easiest places to say that race is not factor in casting.  Ideally, if the Mexican-American immigrant experience is in fact important to the Dora character, though, I'd think you'd want a Latina actor.  I say Latina because I am satisfied with general phenotype being represented, in the same way that I was not upset that Berenice Bejo played an American in The Artist or Sean Connery played a Latvian in Hunt For Red October.

Accents are different story entirely, of course.

Anyway, I guess when you're talking about Meso- and South Americans, Euro-Euros can sort of get away with it due to the Spanish admixture.  I think you'd prefer Latina, however.

[Ed Anger]

I was the one who called her a housekeeper. I get no credit.

[garbon]

Do you seriously--seriously--want to have a movie so insensitive and insulting as to pretend segregation didn't happen?

I think it is more insulting to insist on continuing that segregation. If the movie is about race or race is closely tied up in the plot then yes, I think that race should probably be a factor in casting decision. But if not, no.

It could have its place, I suppose, and Captain America would be one of the better arenas to experiment with it.  But would you be so sanguine if, as I suggested earlier, Garett Hedlund really were cast as the King of Wakanda?

I'd prefer we did away with the Black Panther. Said name has already been sufficiently co-opted at this point. But no I wouldn't be upset if a non-black actress played Storm.