The Off Topic Topic

[Neil]

WTF?  Unfairly?  Bias?  What the hell are you talking about?

well, unless i've misunderstood your argument, your complaint toward the film is that you did not like an aspect of the story. so, if you told others the movie sucked because you may have disliked that certain part, it would be unfair given your bias

No it wouldn't.  Bias is absolutely critical to matters of opinion.  Trying to eliminate bias is silly.

Note that when I make this post that I am biased against overthinking things, and also biased against movies that pointlessly and needlessly slaughter the beloved characters of the previous film in the series.

Transformers: The Movie: discuss.

Transformers did a good job of making the sacrifice of Optimus Prime meaningful.  It actually did a good job of providing a new generation of heros.  Not so much the Decepticons, where their two main characters were eliminated.  Nevertheless, at the end of Transformers, you were left with a sense of satisfaction, despite the fact that Optimus was gone and most of the old supporting Autobots were either dead or seriously injured.

[Neil]

I won my family's Monopoly tournament this year with an early Boardwalk-Park Place monopoly.  Take a Walk on the Boardwalk is killer.

[LaCroix]

Can you tell me what metric you would use then? I've shown you both popular opinion (which I think is fine to use when discussing a piece of pop culture) and also critical opinion (if we want to pretend we are talking about great art). On the flipside, I haven't seen anything from you other than assertions that I'm using the wrong metrics.

iirc your job deals with advertising of some sort, or user opinion of a type? well then.. let us .. just step away from that.. awkward and .. just wrong world for a moment..

a film can be excellent regardless of both popular and "critic" opinion. that either disagree with a movie's quality does not mean it is objectively bad. it means that group disagrees. perhaps i should have been more clear when i said: you don't rely on popularity to decide the quality of something

(to be honest, i don't know how i might have been more clear!)

let us now ask: what do you most dislike about alien 3, garbon?

No it wouldn't.  Bias is absolutely critical to matters of opinion.  Trying to eliminate bias is silly.

Note that when I make this post that I am biased against overthinking things, and also biased against movies that pointlessly and needlessly slaughter the beloved characters of the previous film in the series.

you're looking more at the word "bias" than you are at the actual argument.

it is yi's bias (as he has only displayed disdain toward the film regarding this slight plot device, though iirc once upon a time years ago he once offered one of the better attacks on the film... though i could be wrong. maybe i misremember and that was someone else..) that he disagree with something that occurs in the film, and thus it sucks. now,t hat "something" may or not may  infuriate others - more neutral viewers: for example, a person viewing the movie for the first time without having seen aliens may think it a fine film. they were not emotionally attached to either hicks nor newt, and so did not obsess over their death. they, if you will: moved on. the main complaint offered so far has refused to move on.

that is what i meant by bias. you are entirely correct that everyone has a bias. i have a bias that i've moved on from the deaths of hicks/newt; i've moved on from the technical aspects; i've moved on from the change of pace from action and horror to an odd mixture of both (which probably would have brought about a better film had it been in the hands of a more experienced fincher..), etc. etc. i'm willing to overlook the obvious flaws in the movie, and judge it by what i see - a nicely dark prison film with at least one pretty excellent monologue set amidst a solo alien attack, and how a group of individuals who are very different must come together to defeat it with ingenuity rather than pure pow-pow, pew-pew. it's a nice concept, if awkwardly managed - understandably so given the lack of experience

[Neil]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that somebody watching Alien3 might have some experience with Alien and Aliens, and so I don't think it's unreasonable to view the third movie through the lens of the first two.  I also don't think that it's reasonable to expect people to overlook what you refer to as 'obvious flaws' when reviewing or recommending movies to others.  Indeed, to do so would be counterproductive.

Do I hate the third movie as much as I used to?  No, but then again I've had five subpar movies to get used to the rough love that the franchise has gotten.  In my mind, the comics are the definitive sequel to Aliens.

[CountDeMoney]

i have a bias that i've moved on from the deaths of hicks/newt;

Neil hasn't. 

[jimmy olsen]

i have a bias that i've moved on from the deaths of hicks/newt;

Neil hasn't. 

Neither have I! 

[CountDeMoney]

i have a bias that i've moved on from the deaths of hicks/newt;

Neil hasn't. 

Neither have I! 

That's because you're his cell bitch, and you do what Big Daddy tells you to do.
Now tighten up that knot on the front of your prison shirt showing off your little belly button, prison bitch.

[Tonitrus]

I'm going to have to back Neil on this one.  Everything after Aliens has been crap.

[PDH]

I'm going to have to back Neil on this one.  Everything after Aliens has been crap.

You're siding with Tim

[Neil]

I'm going to have to back Neil on this one.  Everything after Aliens has been crap.

You're siding with Tim

No, he's siding with me, America, Mom and apple pie.  If you're not with me, you're with the sort of people who make Alien Resurrection and AvP2.

[PDH]

I'm going to have to back Neil on this one.  Everything after Aliens has been crap.

You're siding with Tim

No, he's siding with me, America, Mom and apple pie.  If you're not with me, you're with the sort of people who make Alien Resurrection and AvP2.

I saw Alien and Alien 2 in the theater.  I haven't watched any of the others.

Still, Tim is on your side - no matter how much you protest, you are tainted.

[Neil]

I'm going to have to back Neil on this one.  Everything after Aliens has been crap.

You're siding with Tim

No, he's siding with me, America, Mom and apple pie.  If you're not with me, you're with the sort of people who make Alien Resurrection and AvP2.

I saw Alien and Alien 2 in the theater.  I haven't watched any of the others.

Still, Tim is on your side - no matter how much you protest, you are tainted.

Yeah, well Martinus is on yours.  So I still win.

[PDH]

Yeah, well Martinus is on yours.  So I still win.

Shit.

[garbon]

The Game of Life is a much more accurate portrayal of the modern economy anyway.  Put your cash on the Market strip, spin the spinner, watch your retirement disappear gambling on Wall Street.

I miss the old sets where you could sell your children.

[DGuller]

Go Directly to Success: Monopoly's Lessons

'In real life, as in the game: Stay diversified, acquire railroads and don't fall for pricey prestige properties.'

Terrible advice.  Railroads are crap.  Utilities are crap.  You win Monopoly by lucking into a monopoly or taking advantage of weaker players to buy missing parts of a monopoly.

Railroad monopolies can be quite useful.  Having a monopoly isn't immediately useful, because you still need cash to actually develop it before you can collect income from it.  Railroads can be very useful in getting you that cash.  They also make you less desperate to go all-in on your single monopoly.