The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

Yes and no. It is the objective quality control that makes the PDO, although one can argue over the chosen criteria, of course.

But I'll agree to disagree on this.

Like preventing the loss in quality that would have happened had that brewery had the PDO stay in place and it moved across the river?

The main beneficiaries are the the producers who can guarantee a premium for their product by virtue of the PDO.

[DGuller]

So, Americans, how often do YOU sing the national anthem at Walmart? Are you even a TRUE PATRIOT if you don't sing it every time you shop for groceries?

https://twitter.com/Thorsome4/status/1411745585242075137?s=20

National anthem breaks out in Walmart.
Happy 4th! Flag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFisted handFisted handFisted hand
Patriots!!!! Red heartRed heartRed heartRed heartRed heart

I've been to Walmart once, did not sing any national anthems while there.  No one else seemed to either.

[garbon]

You might want to look at the state where that took place.

That said, I don't believe I've ever been to a Walmart on the 4th of July.

[DGuller]

You might want to look at the state where that took place.

No, thanks, I'm good.

[Eddie Teach]

I've been to Wal-Mart in Texas. Sadly no spectacles except the ones I bought.

[Maladict]

Yes and no. It is the objective quality control that makes the PDO, although one can argue over the chosen criteria, of course.

But I'll agree to disagree on this.

Like preventing the loss in quality that would have happened had that brewery had the PDO stay in place and it moved across the river?

The main beneficiaries are the the producers who can guarantee a premium for their product by virtue of the PDO.

Maybe there would not have been a loss in quality, I don't know on what grounds that particular PDO is restricted the way it is.

I mean, the whole idea is that they're based on geographic areas. Which makes some amount of sense, as the products involve natural characteristics of sorts, like the particular qualities of soil or water in a given region.
They have to have boundaries somewhere, and you inevitably get silly situations like this.

Also, I don't see how you are guaranteed a premium if your product is indistinguishable from similar non-PDO products, and consumers are smart enough to not be fooled by a label, as you say they are.

[Valmy]

So, Americans, how often do YOU sing the national anthem at Walmart? Are you even a TRUE PATRIOT if you don't sing it every time you shop for groceries?

I guess if I was shopping and suddenly everybody broke out in song I would sing it. That would be weird though.

[garbon]

Maybe there would not have been a loss in quality, I don't know on what grounds that particular PDO is restricted the way it is.

I mean, the whole idea is that they're based on geographic areas. Which makes some amount of sense, as the products involve natural characteristics of sorts, like the particular qualities of soil or water in a given region.
They have to have boundaries somewhere, and you inevitably get silly situations like this.

But that's the thing, how 'scientific' is it vs. good advocacy as apparently in that situation wasn't too hard for them to get the PDO withdrawn. It feels to me like the PDOs are more reflective of which products have strong advocates/cabals.

Also, I don't see how you are guaranteed a premium if your product is indistinguishable from similar non-PDO products, and consumers are smart enough to not be fooled by a label, as you say they are.

That's an odd stance from you given you and Tyr were arguing that consumers are not smart enough to recall labels and need PDOs as a crutch.

That said, given how my decade plus stance on champagne still does the rounds here, there is definitely a push to suggest to consumers that they should be buying these 'prestige' PDOs and that they need to develop their palates.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe there would not have been a loss in quality, I don't know on what grounds that particular PDO is restricted the way it is.

I mean, the whole idea is that they're based on geographic areas. Which makes some amount of sense, as the products involve natural characteristics of sorts, like the particular qualities of soil or water in a given region.
They have to have boundaries somewhere, and you inevitably get silly situations like this.

Also, I don't see how you are guaranteed a premium if your product is indistinguishable from similar non-PDO products, and consumers are smart enough to not be fooled by a label, as you say they are.

Yeah and they're not always purely geographic but also how they're made and what the permitted ingredients are etc.

But I am pretty European on this and think that terroir matters - especially with things like meat and dairy.

[Maladict]

Maybe there would not have been a loss in quality, I don't know on what grounds that particular PDO is restricted the way it is.

I mean, the whole idea is that they're based on geographic areas. Which makes some amount of sense, as the products involve natural characteristics of sorts, like the particular qualities of soil or water in a given region.
They have to have boundaries somewhere, and you inevitably get silly situations like this.

But that's the thing, how 'scientific' is it vs. good advocacy as apparently in that situation wasn't too hard for them to get the PDO withdrawn. It feels to me like the PDOs are more reflective of which products have strong advocates/cabals.

It's not scientific at all so it will get messy, some PDOs more than others. 

Also, I don't see how you are guaranteed a premium if your product is indistinguishable from similar non-PDO products, and consumers are smart enough to not be fooled by a label, as you say they are.

That's an odd stance from you given you and Tyr were arguing that consumers are not smart enough to recall labels and need PDOs as a crutch.

It is not my stance, I'm just not following your argument.

I also didn't claim consumers were not smart enough, I was merely talking about myself. 

[Maladict]

But I am pretty European on this and think that terroir matters - especially with things like meat and dairy.

Yes. And for me, I'm aware it is sometimes highly irrational and not even to do with taste or quality.
It's the idea of getting it from that location that adds something to it. Like a souvenir from a trip, almost.

[Josquius]

That's an odd stance from you given you and Tyr were arguing that consumers are not smart enough to recall labels and need PDOs as a crutch.

Nobody said anything about intelligence.
I'm sure if I was interested in wine and drank it a lot I'd be fully capable of remembering which I like.
But I don't so that isn't knowledge that goes into my long term memory.
Champagne =sparkly French stuff that I'm not a fan of, is enough for me.

[Razgovory]

So, Americans, how often do YOU sing the national anthem at Walmart? Are you even a TRUE PATRIOT if you don't sing it every time you shop for groceries?

https://twitter.com/Thorsome4/status/1411745585242075137?s=20

National anthem breaks out in Walmart.
Happy 4th! Flag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFisted handFisted handFisted hand
Patriots!!!! Red heartRed heartRed heartRed heartRed heart

That has never happened to me.  The US has a terrible national anthem.

[Eddie Teach]

That's an odd stance from you given you and Tyr were arguing that consumers are not smart enough to recall labels and need PDOs as a crutch.

Nobody said anything about intelligence.
I'm sure if I was interested in wine and drank it a lot I'd be fully capable of remembering which I like.
But I don't so that isn't knowledge that goes into my long term memory.
Champagne =sparkly French stuff that I'm not a fan of, is enough for me.

So you have to learn a different expression for wine grown the same way elsewhere, seems more effort.

[Jacob]

So you have to learn a different expression for wine grown the same way elsewhere, seems more effort.

Not really.

You can go with the generic "fizzy", "sparkling wine", "red wine" or whatever if you don't care.

Ultimately, the move to not respect PDO designation is an attempt for certain non-PDO producers to ride on the coat tails and cash in on the reputation and marketing of PDO producers. Whether you think the reputation is merited or not doesn't really change that fact.