The Off Topic Topic

[Zanza]

Today I learned that in chancellor candidate Laschet's (CDU) state of North Rhine-Westphalia the minimum distance of a wind turbine to residential area is 1000 meters (as per federal recommendation).

For comparison:
- power plants up to 900 MW, amusement parks that open at night, car factories: 700 meters
- garbage dumps/landfills with a capacity of up to 10 tons per day: 500 meters
- open pit mining (with use of explosives), facilities for cleaning animal intestines, facilities for the storage of manure: 300 meters
- breweries, scrapyards up to 1000 square meters, meat cutting plants: 200 meters
- crematories for small animals, stone cutters, car repoair shops: 100 meters

Sheer lunacy, but it shows you the mindset of Braunkohle-Achim of the Letztwähler party. That said, similar rules exist in most German states.

[Josquius]

Garbo watching the world burn with a glass of Don Valley champagne

PDOs do nothing for a consumer but take a larger cut out of their wallets. Consumers are smart enough to figure out what brands are crap like we do with everything else.

If you drink a lot of wine.
If you don't then labels matter.

Yeah, I'm not going to remember all those different brands. Especially when it comes to cheeses, which often don't even have one.
But if the label says Parmigiano Reggiano, I know it is not going to be a crap Parmesan.

This seems disingenous, people remember brands all the time. You don't need to remember all of them, just a core set of brands that you trust/like.

Sure. For stuff you buy every week or a few times a year and which usually has a finite number to choose from.

There's loads of types of wine in the world. And even the same brand has varieties. And it's not something many people buy more than a handful of times a year.

[Razgovory]

I found out that Hermann Oberth died in 1989. For some reason I thought of him as 19th century person like Maxwell or Faraday.  He was born in the 19th century but still...

[Maladict]

This seems disingenous, people remember brands all the time. You don't need to remember all of them, just a core set of brands that you trust/like.

But not really when it comes to cheeses, cured meats and such, which make up the bulk of PDO's in Europe.

I bought some Pecorino romano today but I couldn't tell you its brand. In fact, I can't name any brand of any Italian or French cheese I buy.

[Josquius]

Ouch. Just noticed my last fm stopped tracking last september
Such an incomplete record. Good to fight those who would seek to profit from the data I suppose. But a pain for me.

[garbon]

Sure. For stuff you buy every week or a few times a year and which usually has a finite number to choose from.

There's loads of types of wine in the world. And even the same brand has varieties. And it's not something many people buy more than a handful of times a year.

But not really when it comes to cheeses, cured meats and such, which make up the bulk of PDO's in Europe.

I bought some Pecorino romano today but I couldn't tell you its brand. In fact, I can't name any brand of any Italian or French cheese I buy.

This all very different from my approach. I may not by pre-sliced bread all the time, and there are a variety of choices, but if I go to purchase some sliced bread, I know which ones I prefer.

Similarly while it might have a PDO, I know that not all feta is the same and a quick google says:

https://www.olivetomato.com/how-to-choose-feta-cheese-like-a-greek/#:~:text=There%20are%203%20different%20types,container%20the%20feta%20is%20matured.

There are 3 different types of feta based on the texture: hard, medium-hardness and soft. There are also different aromas: some are saltier, some are spicy and some are mild. This all depends on what area and in what kind of container the feta is matured

With that, I'm not really sure why I would rely just on the PDO as I can end up with a wildly different product even within that protected name category.

As an aside, I like this bit from a wiki article:

The geographical limitations are strict: Newcastle Brown Ale was restricted to being brewed in the city of Newcastle upon Tyne in England. However, having obtained this protection for their product, the brewery decided in 2004 that it would move across the river Tyne to Gateshead. As Gateshead is a separate town—albeit only the width of the river apart—it does not fall within the required geographical restriction. The brewery then applied to the European Union authorities to have the geographical restriction revoked. If the restriction had not been revoked, the brewery would have been forced either to move back to Newcastle, or stop calling its beer "Newcastle" brown ale. Ultimately, the brewery's application to revoke the geographic restriction was approved.

[garbon]

Ouch. Just noticed my last fm stopped tracking last september
Such an incomplete record. Good to fight those who would seek to profit from the data I suppose. But a pain for me.

I've noticed it often has a contentious relationship with Spotify and other apps. When I got a Sonos speaker it first either refused to track anything played through the Sonos or would double count (given I was using Spotify). That behavior has since sorted itself out.

[Josquius]

A friend spotted this septic-tank lorry the other day.
Check out the number plate and website.

[Maladict]

Sure. For stuff you buy every week or a few times a year and which usually has a finite number to choose from.

There's loads of types of wine in the world. And even the same brand has varieties. And it's not something many people buy more than a handful of times a year.

But not really when it comes to cheeses, cured meats and such, which make up the bulk of PDO's in Europe.

I bought some Pecorino romano today but I couldn't tell you its brand. In fact, I can't name any brand of any Italian or French cheese I buy.

This all very different from my approach. I may not by pre-sliced bread all the time, and there are a variety of choices, but if I go to purchase some sliced bread, I know which ones I prefer.

Similarly while it might have a PDO, I know that not all feta is the same and a quick google says:

https://www.olivetomato.com/how-to-choose-feta-cheese-like-a-greek/#:~:text=There%20are%203%20different%20types,container%20the%20feta%20is%20matured.

There are 3 different types of feta based on the texture: hard, medium-hardness and soft. There are also different aromas: some are saltier, some are spicy and some are mild. This all depends on what area and in what kind of container the feta is matured

With that, I'm not really sure why I would rely just on the PDO as I can end up with a wildly different product even within that protected name category.

As an aside, I like this bit from a wiki article:

The geographical limitations are strict: Newcastle Brown Ale was restricted to being brewed in the city of Newcastle upon Tyne in England. However, having obtained this protection for their product, the brewery decided in 2004 that it would move across the river Tyne to Gateshead. As Gateshead is a separate town—albeit only the width of the river apart—it does not fall within the required geographical restriction. The brewery then applied to the European Union authorities to have the geographical restriction revoked. If the restriction had not been revoked, the brewery would have been forced either to move back to Newcastle, or stop calling its beer "Newcastle" brown ale. Ultimately, the brewery's application to revoke the geographic restriction was approved.

Sure, there can still be variety within a PDO and you can have a personal preference for one of them.

But I thought we were talking about quality. I still maintain a DPO is a good indicator for a quality product.
A non-DPO product might be just as good, but it might also be crap.

[garbon]

Sure. For stuff you buy every week or a few times a year and which usually has a finite number to choose from.

There's loads of types of wine in the world. And even the same brand has varieties. And it's not something many people buy more than a handful of times a year.

But not really when it comes to cheeses, cured meats and such, which make up the bulk of PDO's in Europe.

I bought some Pecorino romano today but I couldn't tell you its brand. In fact, I can't name any brand of any Italian or French cheese I buy.

This all very different from my approach. I may not by pre-sliced bread all the time, and there are a variety of choices, but if I go to purchase some sliced bread, I know which ones I prefer.

Similarly while it might have a PDO, I know that not all feta is the same and a quick google says:

https://www.olivetomato.com/how-to-choose-feta-cheese-like-a-greek/#:~:text=There%20are%203%20different%20types,container%20the%20feta%20is%20matured.

There are 3 different types of feta based on the texture: hard, medium-hardness and soft. There are also different aromas: some are saltier, some are spicy and some are mild. This all depends on what area and in what kind of container the feta is matured

With that, I'm not really sure why I would rely just on the PDO as I can end up with a wildly different product even within that protected name category.

As an aside, I like this bit from a wiki article:

The geographical limitations are strict: Newcastle Brown Ale was restricted to being brewed in the city of Newcastle upon Tyne in England. However, having obtained this protection for their product, the brewery decided in 2004 that it would move across the river Tyne to Gateshead. As Gateshead is a separate town—albeit only the width of the river apart—it does not fall within the required geographical restriction. The brewery then applied to the European Union authorities to have the geographical restriction revoked. If the restriction had not been revoked, the brewery would have been forced either to move back to Newcastle, or stop calling its beer "Newcastle" brown ale. Ultimately, the brewery's application to revoke the geographic restriction was approved.

Sure, there can still be variety within a PDO and you can have a personal preference for one of them.

But I thought we were talking about quality. I still maintain a DPO is a good indicator for a quality product.
A non-DPO product might be just as good, but it might also be crap.

I was talking about my innate dislike of PDOs and the lack of benefit to the consumer.

What is quality is so subjective.

[Maladict]

Sure. For stuff you buy every week or a few times a year and which usually has a finite number to choose from.

There's loads of types of wine in the world. And even the same brand has varieties. And it's not something many people buy more than a handful of times a year.

But not really when it comes to cheeses, cured meats and such, which make up the bulk of PDO's in Europe.

I bought some Pecorino romano today but I couldn't tell you its brand. In fact, I can't name any brand of any Italian or French cheese I buy.

This all very different from my approach. I may not by pre-sliced bread all the time, and there are a variety of choices, but if I go to purchase some sliced bread, I know which ones I prefer.

Similarly while it might have a PDO, I know that not all feta is the same and a quick google says:

https://www.olivetomato.com/how-to-choose-feta-cheese-like-a-greek/#:~:text=There%20are%203%20different%20types,container%20the%20feta%20is%20matured.

There are 3 different types of feta based on the texture: hard, medium-hardness and soft. There are also different aromas: some are saltier, some are spicy and some are mild. This all depends on what area and in what kind of container the feta is matured

With that, I'm not really sure why I would rely just on the PDO as I can end up with a wildly different product even within that protected name category.

As an aside, I like this bit from a wiki article:

The geographical limitations are strict: Newcastle Brown Ale was restricted to being brewed in the city of Newcastle upon Tyne in England. However, having obtained this protection for their product, the brewery decided in 2004 that it would move across the river Tyne to Gateshead. As Gateshead is a separate town—albeit only the width of the river apart—it does not fall within the required geographical restriction. The brewery then applied to the European Union authorities to have the geographical restriction revoked. If the restriction had not been revoked, the brewery would have been forced either to move back to Newcastle, or stop calling its beer "Newcastle" brown ale. Ultimately, the brewery's application to revoke the geographic restriction was approved.

Sure, there can still be variety within a PDO and you can have a personal preference for one of them.

But I thought we were talking about quality. I still maintain a DPO is a good indicator for a quality product.
A non-DPO product might be just as good, but it might also be crap.

I was talking about my innate dislike of PDOs and the lack of benefit to the consumer.

What is quality is so subjective.

Yes and no. It is the objective quality control that makes the PDO, although one can argue over the chosen criteria, of course.

But I'll agree to disagree on this.

[crazy canuck]

A friend spotted this septic-tank lorry the other day.
Check out the number plate and website.

Truth in Advertising!

[Razgovory]

Raz trying to cook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLgYhmOGK88

[Syt]

So, Americans, how often do YOU sing the national anthem at Walmart? Are you even a TRUE PATRIOT if you don't sing it every time you shop for groceries?

https://twitter.com/Thorsome4/status/1411745585242075137?s=20

National anthem breaks out in Walmart.
Happy 4th! Flag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFlag of United StatesFisted handFisted handFisted hand
Patriots!!!! Red heartRed heartRed heartRed heartRed heart

[The Minsky Moment]

PDOs are just a variation of trademarks. I don't see why they should be so challenging to respect.

PDOs don't use trademark law.  They use laws passed to protect specific special interests, as the new Russian law demonstrates.

Trademarks are part of international intellectual property regulations; PDOs are just European law (or national laws in the cases of non-EU PDOs, like the Russian example).

Trademarks are national level regulations; you need to register a TM in each and every country you want to do business (or may do so in the future).  The scope and effect of trademark law is all based on national legislation.  There is an international registry system that exists by treaty but it has no substantive power; it is just a filing convenience.

Since special interests shape all IP law I don't think the distinction posited is very significant.

The policy justification for TM is the notion to protect consumers buying something labelled "Brand Z" from the possibility that it actually comes from some other supplier.
The policy justification for PDO is the notion to protect consumers buying something labelled "Place Z" from the possibility that it actually comes from some other place.

It seems conceptually similar to me.  The question is for many many consumers true place of origin is as significant  as brand origin.  It's true for at least some.