The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

They're important community hubs.

More importantly developers shouldn't be able to get around negative planning decisions in that way - especially when the building's just about to be listed.

I don't think a community should build hubs around alcohol.

And pre-covid, were any of you actually forming bonds in your community at pubs? How many new friends did you make?

[Sheilbh]

Quite right Tyr, the taxes can be used to make the cost of a drink the same in a pub as it would be from a supermarket.

In addition young people should be allowed in to drink in pubs subject to not irritating the senior clientele 

Agreed. And I'd add that there's also a need to preserve gay bars/queer venues which are particularly vulnerable to being shut down, knocked down and turned into identikit flats because they're mainly in urban areas.

I think there are plans for a fund to allow communities to buy their local pub which is a good idea.

And yeah when I was young there were a couple of pubs that basically did tolerate us under-agers. One was split into saloon v public bar so the youngsters would have one - and I normally ended up there on my birthdays and the landlady would always ask "eighteen again, S?"

Far more healthy than house or park drinking.

[Josquius]

I remember when I was in Amsterdam, one night I went with a local friend to his home town for a concert. After the show we went to this place that he said was a youth centre... Though it was really some kind of awesome very cheap pub where everyone was very young. Really can't remember much about it but there was some kind of subsidising going on.

At uni too the nations are given a tax exemption so their pubs sell alcohol at sane non Scandinavian prices. I wonder whether that was done for big picture reasons...

And yeah. I miss gadgie pubs that would serve under age people.
The UK should really be following the Continent and reducing the drinking age for beer and wine.

Tyr aren't you too young for "there's change to how things used to be, the state should spend money on keeping things the same!" talk?

Who said ought about keeping things the same?
Its about nudging the unstoppable flow of change in the right direction.
It's fundamental to being human :don't just kick back and let things happen. Make the world the way you want it to be.

They're important community hubs.

More importantly developers shouldn't be able to get around negative planning decisions in that way - especially when the building's just about to be listed.

I don't think a community should build hubs around alcohol.

And pre-covid, were any of you actually forming bonds in your community at pubs? How many new friends did you make?

I met my partner in a pub.
Several of my friends too.

[Tamas]

They're important community hubs.

More importantly developers shouldn't be able to get around negative planning decisions in that way - especially when the building's just about to be listed.

I don't think a community should build hubs around alcohol.

And pre-covid, were any of you actually forming bonds in your community at pubs? How many new friends did you make?

To be fair it can be a cultural thing. Alcohol and heavy drinking seem deeply seeped into the culture here.

[garbon]

They're important community hubs.

More importantly developers shouldn't be able to get around negative planning decisions in that way - especially when the building's just about to be listed.

I don't think a community should build hubs around alcohol.

And pre-covid, were any of you actually forming bonds in your community at pubs? How many new friends did you make?

To be fair it can be a cultural thing. Alcohol and heavy drinking seem deeply seeped into the culture here.

Sure but that doesn't mean it shouldnt/couldn't change over time.

[Legbiter]

The lava pool is trapped in a small valley that contains it and sort of acts as a reservoir. At this rate it can spend the next couple of weeks filling it up before it can flow anywhere.

[Jacob]

Cool pictures

[Richard Hakluyt]

They're important community hubs.

More importantly developers shouldn't be able to get around negative planning decisions in that way - especially when the building's just about to be listed.

I don't think a community should build hubs around alcohol.

And pre-covid, were any of you actually forming bonds in your community at pubs? How many new friends did you make?

To be fair it can be a cultural thing. Alcohol and heavy drinking seem deeply seeped into the culture here.

I looked it up and Hungary and the UK consumed exactly the same amount per capita 
Admittedly the USA consumed about 15% less per head.
Perhaps more importantly, when there were more pubs in the UK alcohol consumption was lower, drinking at home was deemed to be on the slippery slope by many.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Also, really cool pics Legbiter 

[Tamas]

They're important community hubs.

More importantly developers shouldn't be able to get around negative planning decisions in that way - especially when the building's just about to be listed.

I don't think a community should build hubs around alcohol.

And pre-covid, were any of you actually forming bonds in your community at pubs? How many new friends did you make?

To be fair it can be a cultural thing. Alcohol and heavy drinking seem deeply seeped into the culture here.

I looked it up and Hungary and the UK consumed exactly the same amount per capita 
Admittedly the USA consumed about 15% less per head.
Perhaps more importantly, when there were more pubs in the UK alcohol consumption was lower, drinking at home was deemed to be on the slippery slope by many.

I am not necessarily saying consumption, but in public discourse the acceptance of getting wasted and such. My usual example is the morning TV show uproar over possible ban of alcohol at airports some years ago - I would never, ever see ITV-sized anchors discuss things like "you can't fly sober".

[Sheilbh]

I am not necessarily saying consumption, but in public discourse the acceptance of getting wasted and such. My usual example is the morning TV show uproar over possible ban of alcohol at airports some years ago - I would never, ever see ITV-sized anchors discuss things like "you can't fly sober".

That ban would be horrible. It's lovely to grab a quick pre-flight drink - especially if you have a morning flight because there's nothing that quite signifies "I'm on holiday" like it

Especially if you're flying Easyjet or Ryanair and a G&T on the flight costs £17

I went on holiday to Istanbul for my birthday a few years ago. My birthday's in January, there'd been a terrorist attack in Ankara a couple of week's before and it was a morning flight on BA - so the flight was weirdly deserted. It was basically about 20 people and no-one in first class so the cabin crew were just rolling out with free drinks for us. It was great.

[Zanza]

The lava pool is trapped in a small valley that contains it and sort of acts as a reservoir. At this rate it can spend the next couple of weeks filling it up before it can flow anywhere.

Wow, that looks really cool.

[Sheilbh]

The Daily Mail - seriously - reviewing a book on Dostoyevsky and his relationships

[Syt]

[grumbler]

What would you say is a reasonable narrative re: Napoleon and Haiti, and especially his intentions towards the population there?

(Note - the sum of my knowledge on the topic is what's been posted in this thread so far)

Napoleon, anxious to establish his bona fides with the French middle class, sends troops to restore French control of Haiti (the wealthiest colony in the world).  His commander there, General LeClerc, arranges for peace based on no re-imposition of slavery, and the admission of the rebel troops into the French Army (and it's pay).  It's not clear how sincere LeClerc was.  His successor, Rochambeau, was a brute who felt that his mission was to conquer the island by any means necessary, including mass murder.  Napoleon's Law of 1802 allowed the re-imposition of slavery, but didn't declare it's re-imposition.  Napoleon never re-imposed slavery in Haiti, though he may well have been planning it.  The law gave him complete flexibility, which matched his own moral flexibility.

Napoleon's view of slavery was entirely pragmatic.  He deplored it when it was in France's interest to deplore it (including in Haiti), and supported it when it was in  France's interest to support it (in Mauritius and Réunion, which had never abolished it).  Slavery was only re-imposed on Guadeloupe and in Guyana.  Ditto his stand on the Haitian black leadership: he supported it when that leadership supported French interests, and suppressed it when it didn't.  At the very least, one can condemn Napoleon for being indifferent to the suffering his policies provoked (the same can be said for Spain, for that matter).

I'd note that the British may well have suffered more losses trying to re-impose slavery on Haiti than the French did.