The Off Topic Topic

[Jacob]

Why are night trains so good that you want them returned? Why did they go away?

Night trains are the best because you get on them, sleep, and then you're there. You're not using your waking hours to travel. If you're traveling on a budget, it saves you a night's accomodation. If you're a busy go-getter, you don't have to take time out of your work to travel.

It's also a pretty cozy feeling on a night train, falling asleep to the sound of the train.

I don't know why they went away beyond "demand". My guess is that low cost airlines combined lowered the appeal, which probably let to poor route availability which then lowered the popularity further. There are probably other factors in play as well.

[crazy canuck]

Night trains were great for backbacking on a budget back in the day. 

[celedhring]

Amsterdam connections to Barcelona, Milan and Warsaw. Not great, not terrible.

Yet Barcelona doesn't connect back to Amsterdam apparently. So be careful if you travel here 

[Barrister]

Edmonton has a single rail line going east and west.

If you wanted to go west to Vancouver there's a train leaving at midnight.  It would arrive in Vancouver at 8am - the next day (so total of 32 hours).  It would cost you $190 for an economy fare, so you get to sleep in your seat for two nights.  A single berth would cost you $1140.

Taking the bus would cost you $193 and take 18 hours (5pm to 10am).

A flight will cost you between $50 and $80 and takes about 1 hour 40 minutes in the air.  Fees would certainly increase that by a lot.


Why the fuck would anyone ever take the train?

[Grey Fox]

VIA Rail is dumb. Canada's railroad exist to move things, not people and it has downsides.

[Duque de Bragança]

Very cool:
https://direkt.bahn.guru/

Type in a train station in Europe and see where you can get direct trains to. This is also genuinely little bit useful - though I'll spend most of my afternoon dedicated to working out where all the central London stations go (what is a Marylebone?)

Vienna has direct links to 13 countries.   Is ÖBB still run by the Habsburgs?

Direct night train from Paris to Vienna resumes service December 13.

That map was about 2020 night train projects so direct night trains to Faro would be quite a change...

[Savonarola]

VIA Rail is dumb. Canada's railroad exist to move things, not people and it has downsides.

But Canada does have the advantage of an enormous amount of freight capacity; it's the fifth largest in the world (after China, Russia, The United States and India.) 

[crazy canuck]

Edmonton has a single rail line going east and west.

If you wanted to go west to Vancouver there's a train leaving at midnight.  It would arrive in Vancouver at 8am - the next day (so total of 32 hours).  It would cost you $190 for an economy fare, so you get to sleep in your seat for two nights.  A single berth would cost you $1140.

Taking the bus would cost you $193 and take 18 hours (5pm to 10am).

A flight will cost you between $50 and $80 and takes about 1 hour 40 minutes in the air.  Fees would certainly increase that by a lot.


Why the fuck would anyone ever take the train?

Get out of Edmonton by any means possible?

[Savonarola]

Edmonton has a single rail line going east and west.

If you wanted to go west to Vancouver there's a train leaving at midnight.  It would arrive in Vancouver at 8am - the next day (so total of 32 hours).  It would cost you $190 for an economy fare, so you get to sleep in your seat for two nights.  A single berth would cost you $1140.

Taking the bus would cost you $193 and take 18 hours (5pm to 10am).

A flight will cost you between $50 and $80 and takes about 1 hour 40 minutes in the air.  Fees would certainly increase that by a lot.


Why the fuck would anyone ever take the train?

Is the track really old?  I looked at the route and there really aren't that many stops; I'm surprised it would take so long (unless the track is in such bad shape that there are a lot of speed restrictions.)

[Barrister]

VIA Rail is dumb. Canada's railroad exist to move things, not people and it has downsides.

But Canada does have the advantage of an enormous amount of freight capacity; it's the fifth largest in the world (after China, Russia, The United States and India.) 
[/quote]

Is the track really old?  I looked at the route and there really aren't that many stops; I'm surprised it would take so long (unless the track is in such bad shape that there are a lot of speed restrictions.)

As I understand it, you actually hit on the answer yourself.

The line used is the main CN Rail line.  VIA Rail doesn't actually own any rail lines itself - it just "rents" them from CN.  I believe this is required by law, so not something CN actually wants to do.  As a result freight traffic takes priority over VIA trains, and they get shunted aside frequently.

As a freight line it certainly isn't a euro-style high speed rail line - but it should be considerably faster than 32 hours.  A search suggests it would take 13 hours to drive that distance.

[Sheilbh]

VIA Rail is dumb. Canada's railroad exist to move things, not people and it has downsides.

Same in the US - incredibly modern and efficient freight network, but very sad passenger network

Anyway I think the romantic equivalent of the night train is, for the US, the highway.

[Savonarola]

As I understand it, you actually hit on the answer yourself.

The line used is the main CN Rail line.  VIA Rail doesn't actually own any rail lines itself - it just "rents" them from CN.  I believe this is required by law, so not something CN actually wants to do.  As a result freight traffic takes priority over VIA trains, and they get shunted aside frequently.

As a freight line it certainly isn't a euro-style high speed rail line - but it should be considerably faster than 32 hours.  A search suggests it would take 13 hours to drive that distance.

It is common practice to run trains over another company's territory.  In the United States you are required to let other companies run their train on your track (at cost) in order to stop the proliferation of track (I would assume it's the same in most countries.)  We also prioritize freight over passenger rail in the US (though, technically, that's illegal) even in places where Amtrak owns or maintains the track (such as the project I worked on in Michigan); which does make rail travel slow and frustrating.

Even so 32 hours surprises me; maximum civil speed on standard track in the US is about 125 Kmph and Canada almost always follows US rail standards.  It looks like it's only about 1200 Km from Edmonton to Vancouver.

[Grey Fox]

As I understand it, you actually hit on the answer yourself.

The line used is the main CN Rail line.  VIA Rail doesn't actually own any rail lines itself - it just "rents" them from CN.  I believe this is required by law, so not something CN actually wants to do.  As a result freight traffic takes priority over VIA trains, and they get shunted aside frequently.

As a freight line it certainly isn't a euro-style high speed rail line - but it should be considerably faster than 32 hours.  A search suggests it would take 13 hours to drive that distance.

It is common practice to run trains over another company's territory.  In the United States you are required to let other companies run their train on your track (at cost) in order to stop the proliferation of track (I would assume it's the same in most countries.)  We also prioritize freight over passenger rail in the US (though, technically, that's illegal) even in places where Amtrak owns or maintains the track (such as the project I worked on in Michigan); which does make rail travel slow and frustrating.

Even so 32 hours surprises me; maximum civil speed on standard track in the US is about 125 Kmph and Canada almost always follows US rail standards.  It looks like it's only about 1200 Km from Edmonton to Vancouver.

IIRC, it's scenic route that has stops along the Rockies stations.

https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/rockies-and-pacific/vancouver-edmonton

This is why I'm calling Via Rail dumb. It doesn't try to compete (outside of Quebec-Windsor corridor) with actual modes of transportation. It tries to compete against Resorts & tourists spots.

[Barrister]

As I understand it, you actually hit on the answer yourself.

The line used is the main CN Rail line.  VIA Rail doesn't actually own any rail lines itself - it just "rents" them from CN.  I believe this is required by law, so not something CN actually wants to do.  As a result freight traffic takes priority over VIA trains, and they get shunted aside frequently.

As a freight line it certainly isn't a euro-style high speed rail line - but it should be considerably faster than 32 hours.  A search suggests it would take 13 hours to drive that distance.

It is common practice to run trains over another company's territory.  In the United States you are required to let other companies run their train on your track (at cost) in order to stop the proliferation of track (I would assume it's the same in most countries.)  We also prioritize freight over passenger rail in the US (though, technically, that's illegal) even in places where Amtrak owns or maintains the track (such as the project I worked on in Michigan); which does make rail travel slow and frustrating.

Even so 32 hours surprises me; maximum civil speed on standard track in the US is about 125 Kmph and Canada almost always follows US rail standards.  It looks like it's only about 1200 Km from Edmonton to Vancouver.

IIRC, it's scenic route that has stops along the Rockies stations.

https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/rockies-and-pacific/vancouver-edmonton

This is why I'm calling Via Rail dumb. It doesn't try to compete (outside of Quebec-Windsor corridor) with actual modes of transportation. It tries to compete against Resorts & tourists spots.

I don't think it competes with anything or anyone.

If I wanted to go the other way and go to Winnipeg, it'll cost me $158 and take 25 hours.  There's nothing scenic about that trip, and taking a bus or flying would be significantly faster (bus will take 17 hours).

[Jacob]

I think the trans-Canada railroad for passengers is a do-it-once-one-way-for-the-experience-to-appreciate-the-size-of-the-country type of thing, and maybe not that compelling either.

But that doesn't really counter-indicate much about what is great about night trains in Europe and Asia.