The Off Topic Topic

[Admiral Yi]

"Depraved heart murder?"  That's a thing?

[Ideologue]

No, I made it up.  Jeez.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder

[Admiral Yi]

Jeez yourself.

[MadBurgerMaker]

The Alamodome is....not suited for MLB.  Dodgers and Rangers are playing a spring training game there tonight, and they just showed the field.  Looks like right field is 230.  Its all lopsided, since left is more normal.  They were also talking about players having trouble seeing the ball on popups and such, which makes sense with the support structure thats all over up there. 

They did this last year too, I think, I just never got a chance to see it.

[KRonn]

The c-section would produce a baby that is possibly likely to survive. And killing it...is well killing it.

And what if this baby was possibly likely to survive? It is a pretty arbitrary line and it was set at breathing. I guess to you there is no need for a law since it will be no longer be a fetus at...some point independent of the law?

I think that's the law in that state, that if the baby takes a breath first then it can be considered murder/manslaughter.
I think in some other states if an unborn baby is considered viable and someone attacks the mother and the baby is killed while in the womb then it can be considered murder, manslaughter, etc. I guess considered viable is seven to nine months or something.

[Valmy]

I think in some other states if an unborn baby is considered viable and someone attacks the mother and the baby is killed while in the womb then it can be considered murder, manslaughter, etc. I guess considered viable is seven to nine months or something.

Yeah I think Colorado has it right on this one. Just like with pot.

[Josquius]

And what if this baby was possibly likely to survive? It is a pretty arbitrary line and it was set at breathing. I guess to you there is no need for a law since it will be no longer be a fetus at...some point independent of the law?

You don't like there being definitions of a fetus vs. a baby? Don't you think that is a definition that needs to be established? I question the validity of a person outside of his or her mother who is able to breathe still being defined as a fetus. That sounds like a good definition to me. What is your definition and why does not require any sort of legal distinction?

It is a definition that can't be established. It will always be so arbitrary and liable to change. Somewhere down the line we'll get to the stage where a zygote  will be viable outside of a woman what with machines and the like.

It clearly wasn't the case here but it seems fucked up to me that you could feasibly commit a crime against a woman, not realising she was pregnant, and then go down for a crime against two people.

In this particular case...the crime was clearly an assault upon the woman. But then the moment the baby is out and starts breathing it is a crime against the baby too? That is just bizarre.

I'm really not saying the psycho needs a smaller sentence here and the crime of ending a wanted pregnancy should be treat pretty damn seriously but it should be kept clear of the crime of murder. Avoid the muddy waters.

[Martinus]

A woman in Colorado lured a pregnant woman into her house then cut out her fetus. The mother lived.

The DA is pondering a murder charge.  Under CO law it is murder if the fetus drew one breath outside the womb.

Political correctness gone mad.

But seriously wouldnt cutting someone's belly open count as attempted murder in any case? So the whole "was it a baby murder" debate sounds like unnecessary abortion semantics issue.

[Martinus]

The c-section would produce a baby that is possibly likely to survive. And killing it...is well killing it.

And what if this baby was possibly likely to survive? It is a pretty arbitrary line and it was set at breathing. I guess to you there is no need for a law since it will be no longer be a fetus at...some point independent of the law?

The onus should be on taking away a woman's pregnancy- if the baby had survived then it would be a lesser sentence. But putting the legalese on the fetus.... I don't like that

You don't like there being definitions of a fetus vs. a baby? Don't you think that is a definition that needs to be established? I question the validity of a person outside of his or her mother who is able to breathe still being defined as a fetus. That sounds like a good definition to me. What is your definition and why does not require any sort of legal distinction?

A shitty one.

Not one at all. There is no sort of abortion where the first step is 'removing the fetus from the mother', that is supposed to be the last step.

Personally I don't see much difference between killing a fetus and then taking it out and vice versa.

[Martinus]

Jeez yourself.

I think he prefers to jeez his Asian girlfriends.

[LaCroix]

this state chose to draw the line at the womb. baby inside the womb = not murder. baby outside the womb = murder. in the latter, the baby has "entered the world" and is developed enough to survive for a short time away from the mother. he has experienced the world (albeit briefly and in no material way). calling it murder makes sense to me, and it's something both sides in the abortion debate can agree on.

[DGuller]

Wow, words fail me.

7 Children Die in Brooklyn Fire
By AL BAKER, NATE SCHWEBER and JOSEPH BERGERMARCH 21, 2015

Seven children from the same family — ages 5 to 15 — died early Saturday in a fire in Brooklyn that the authorities said was caused by a malfunctioning hot plate.

The blaze was reported just before 12:30 a.m. at a single-family house on Bedford Avenue in the Midwood neighborhood, officials said.

At a press conference shortly after 8 a.m., Daniel A. Nigro, the fire commisioner, said a hot plate left on a counter on the first floor malfunctioned and started the fire that raced up the stairs to the second floor where nine family members were in bed.

The mother jumped out a front window, a daughter, 15, went out a side window. They both suffered burns and smoke inhalation. The other seven children, ages 5 to 15, died.

"This is the largest tragedy by fire that this city has had in seven years," Mr. Nigro said. "It's a tragedy for this family, it's a tragedy for this community, it's a tragedy for the city."

Fire investigators found a smoke detector in the basement of the home, but so far none on the first or second floors. They are still looking through the rubble.

"There was no evidence of smoke detectors on either the first or the second floor that may have alerted this family to the fire," he said.

The children slept in five bedrooms in the back rear of the house, separated from the kitchen by an open stairwell that the fire raced up, Mr. Nigro said. The two who survived were closest to the front of the home, and the oldest.

Firefighters were on scene in three and a half minutes, officials said.

"Firefighters forced their way in, extinguished fire on the first floor, which had started in the kitchen," he said, "then pushed upstairs and found the children in their bedrooms."

The children's father is away at a conference and has been difficult to reach, he said.

"It's difficult to find one child in a room during a search," he said. "To find a houseful of seven children that can't be revived."

He added that the hot plate was likely used because it was a way to keep food warm on the Jewish Sabbath without turning on the stove.

While he did not elaborate, many Orthodox Jewish families, forbidden from lighting fires during the Sabbath, keep food warm by lighting a burner on a stove before the Sabbath.

The mother was taken to Jacobi Medical Center in the Bronx, which has a hyperbaric chamber to provide care to patients suffering from smoke inhalation.

The eighth child was taken to Staten Island University Hospital. Both are in critical condition, officials said.

A large, square, charred hole gaped from the front of the light-colored house with a red roof on the snow-frosted block of Bedford Avenue at first light Saturday morning. Three fire engines flashed their lights on the block, which had been closed by police.

A man who lives next door to the burned house and declined to give his name said the family was large and loving — some of the children shoveled snow for neighbors on Friday.

"They're very good people, the kids were always helping people," he said.

The family had rented the home for about two years, he said.

He said he woke up around 1 am to sirens and screams.

"I don't get it," he said, "I don't understand it."

I think I get it.  Fucking fire hazards cause fires sometimes, even if they're there for religious reasons.

[garbon]

Wow.

On a side note, raising 8 children in NYC?

[DGuller]

It's not uncommon, as long as you're willing to accept materially poor existence.  Plus, you do get community support, which is worth some money.

[Josquius]

Sometimes stereotypes hold true.
Some German friends stayed over last night.
....
And I've just realised they ate all my sausages.