The Off Topic Topic

[Jacob]

Thanks for that Yi. Totally what I want to be thinking about this Friday morning.

[MadBurgerMaker]

A woman in Colorado lured a pregnant woman into her house then cut out her fetus. The mother lived.

The DA is pondering a murder charge.  Under CO law it is murder if the fetus drew one breath outside the womb.

Yeah that was some nightmare shit.  Crazy lady's husband came home and found her covered in blood with an infant gasping for breath in the bathtub (which is where the murder charge might come from).  She said she miscarried, so he took them all to the hospital. 

[Josquius]

I read about that one. To say its murder is insane. But there should probably be a separate legal category for involuntary abortion.
Hopefully her being clearly psychotic will be enough to lock her away for a long time.

[Caliga]

I read about that one. To say its murder is insane.

[The Brain]

Yeah "it's" FFS.

[Valmy]

To say its murder is insane.

Ok lets say somebody runs into an operating room where a C-section had just been performed, grabs the baby and kills it.

How is that different than cutting the baby out of the mother and putting it, still alive, in a bathtub to die?

But there should probably be a separate legal category for involuntary abortion

The law in this case clearly says if the baby breathes on its own it is murder. In what kind of abortion would the baby ever breath on its own?

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah "it's" FFS.

"His" or "her".

[Josquius]

To say its murder is insane.

Ok lets say somebody runs into an operating room where a C-section had just been performed, grabs the baby and kills it.

How is that different than cutting the baby out of the mother and putting it, still alive, in a bathtub to die?

The c-section would produce a baby that is possibly likely to survive. And killing it...is well killing it.
Cutting a foetus out of a woman is doing very fucked up things to that woman. Putting the thing you cut out of her in a bath tub is then pretty negligent and stupid but should be very very much secondary to what you did to the woman in the first place.
The onus should be on taking away a woman's pregnancy- if the baby had survived then it would be a lesser sentence. But putting the legalese on the fetus.... I don't like that

The law in this case clearly says if the baby breathes on its own it is murder. In what kind of abortion would the baby ever breath on its own?

A shitty one.

[Admiral Yi]

So wounding the woman is fucked up but tossing the fetus in the bathtub is negligent? 

You're like the pro-abortion version of a clinic bomber Squeeze.

[Syt]

Just to be devil's advocate - if the perp wanted the baby for herself and planned on it surviving the act, could it be considered involuntary manslaughter if the fetus/baby dies?

[Valmy]

The c-section would produce a baby that is possibly likely to survive. And killing it...is well killing it.

And what if this baby was possibly likely to survive? It is a pretty arbitrary line and it was set at breathing. I guess to you there is no need for a law since it will be no longer be a fetus at...some point independent of the law?

The onus should be on taking away a woman's pregnancy- if the baby had survived then it would be a lesser sentence. But putting the legalese on the fetus.... I don't like that

You don't like there being definitions of a fetus vs. a baby? Don't you think that is a definition that needs to be established? I question the validity of a person outside of his or her mother who is able to breathe still being defined as a fetus. That sounds like a good definition to me. What is your definition and why does not require any sort of legal distinction?

A shitty one.

Not one at all. There is no sort of abortion where the first step is 'removing the fetus from the mother', that is supposed to be the last step.

[Valmy]

Just to be devil's advocate - if the perp wanted the baby for herself and planned on it surviving the act, could it be considered involuntary manslaughter if the fetus/baby dies?

Probably and that might not be a bad defense.

[Syt]

Spiegel cover: "How Europeans see the Germans"

[MadBurgerMaker]

the thing you cut out of her

Being born at 7 months is really premature, but it's not like an egg yolk or some shit.

[Ideologue]

Just to be devil's advocate - if the perp wanted the baby for herself and planned on it surviving the act, could it be considered involuntary manslaughter if the fetus/baby dies?

It would be felony murder (the underlying felony being attempted kidnapping) or depraved heart murder (an act so reckless that it would almost certainly result in death or grave bodily harm, even if no intent to kill or grievously wound could be established).

Anyway, it says a lot about the state or our stupid criminal law that this obvious waste of breath needs to be tried for murder in order to be executed.  The nature of the battery should surely be sufficient for capital punishment.