Treasury Department to Put a Woman on the $10 Bill in 2020

[Eddie Teach]

Frankly, considering post-colonial history, I'm not sure Churchill was wrong to want to keep the British Empire intact. Not morally, anyway. Probably not worth the effort to British citizens though.

[The Brain]

If God can give people free will then I'm sure John Bull can too.

[Razgovory]

And Churchill was racist and imperialist, both things that we should be avoiding.

Basically their Teddy Roosevelt. Besides history rarely gives us easy labels for people.

Churchill is a liminal figure who stand on the line between the British empire and modern Britain.  So he represents much of what is good and what is bad of Imperial Britain.  In that sense, he was similar to Lincoln or FDR both figures who stood astride eras in American history.  However both Lincoln and Roosevelt were agents of change from one era to another, Churchill resisted the change that was coming and ended up on the wrong side of it.

Can you give some examples of Churchill's racist opinions?

Why the hell did you ask me of all people?  I wasn't the one to bring it up.  BB posted an article that sums up some racist statements,  it's trivially easy to find racist statements from someone living in 1916.  I think the Imperialism and classism are more of note.  He really wanted to keep the old order when the people of Britain were turning away from it.  It says a lot that he was voted out of office in 1945.

[Ed Anger]

Women on the money. 

[Caliga]

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about Woodrow Wilson, the non-racist and non-imperialist guy who set Europe up for the Second World War with his retarded self-determination unless you're German shit.

  Wilson was as racist as they came.

Yeah I know.  I was trying to be ironic there... I mean you read the end of my post right?

[Martinus]

The racism, or degree of which, has been greatly discussed online.  Here's just a couple of hits:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter-and-verse/2015/1214/5-surprising-facts-about-Woodrow-Wilson-and-racism

Ok that's pretty bad.

[garbon]

From my long distance perspective looks like Jackson just heralded one group of white people taking on elite status from a different group.

Given that white people have managed to built the most prominent and technologically advanced (on a sustained basis) civilisation to date, I'd say that's pretty significant. It's not like, say, black people, who never really accomplished a lot.

[Martinus]

From my long distance perspective looks like Jackson just heralded one group of white people taking on elite status from a different group.

Given that white people have managed to built the most prominent and technologically advanced (on a sustained basis) civilisation to date, I'd say that's pretty significant. It's not like, say, black people, who never really accomplished a lot.

I just think your anti-white people shtick is getting old, garbo.

You are culturally white upper (middle) class. You were raised by a white well-off family, which sent you to a prestigious university and you ended up having a cool job in an international corporation, that sent you off to one of the best cities on Earth. You are way more privileged than most white males on this board, not to mention people like an average white male in rural Alabama, where your privilege differs so greatly, you may just as well be living on different planets.

And on top of that, given your skin colour and sexual orientation, if your employer needs to make people redundant, and has you and another white straight married father of four to choose from, then all other things (including your professional performance) being equal, he and not you is much more likely to get the axe.

So climb down from your plush cross, darling. 

[The Brain]

There might a reorganization coming up at work. Do you have any gay coupon?

[Richard Hakluyt]

Churchill veneration in the UK has actually increased in my lifetime. As time goes by he is increasingly remembered for just one thing, that determination back in 1940 that helped stiffen Britain's backbone which in turn led to a better post-WW2 world. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, talking to the old folk, a lot of them didn't like him. Coal miners didn't like because of the troops being sent in at the Rhonda 1911 coal strike. Military men criticised his "soft underbelly of Europe" theories and constant meddling. Others didn't like him simply because he was a Tory. It is notable that in the 1945 election the country rejected him and wanted to make a very different Britain.

Having said all that, if 1940 was the British Empire's "finest hour" it was also his and I'm sure he was aware of that; if Britain had caved in the future for Europe would have been much darker and it was a close-run thing that we didn't.

[Josquius]

It's really irritating that people only remember the good things about him.
One that is particularly irksome is the "he was the only one who noticed the nazis were a threat in the 30s and the establishment put him out in the cold for this!"
When in fact the main reason he became such a marginal figure in the 30s was his views on India. He just couldn't see that the history of british rule in India was a history of gradual movement towards self rule and that an independent India was inevitable within a few decades at least.  No. To him it was brown people can't rule themselves.

Also the idea that he was the one who won the war...
Attlee deserves just as much credit for making sure the country kept quietly ticking over.

[Lettow77]

Having said all that, if 1940 was the British Empire's "finest hour" it was also his and I'm sure he was aware of that; if Britain had caved in the future for Europe would have been much darker and it was a close-run thing that we didn't.

Really? I imagine the future of Europe would have been much paler, myself.

[Admiral Yi]

It's really irritating that people only remember the good things about him.
One that is particularly irksome is the "he was the only one who noticed the nazis were a threat in the 30s and the establishment put him out in the cold for this!"
When in fact the main reason he became such a marginal figure in the 30s was his views on India. He just couldn't see that the history of british rule in India was a history of gradual movement towards self rule and that an independent India was inevitable within a few decades at least.  No. To him it was brown people can't rule themselves.

Also the idea that he was the one who won the war...
Attlee deserves just as much credit for making sure the country kept quietly ticking over.

He was put out in the cold because of Gallipoli.  His warnings about Germany in the 30s were issued from the fringes of power.

It wasn't self-evident in the 30s that India was capable of self rule.  It wasn't self evident during partition and independence, for that matter.

[garbon]

From my long distance perspective looks like Jackson just heralded one group of white people taking on elite status from a different group.

Given that white people have managed to built the most prominent and technologically advanced (on a sustained basis) civilisation to date, I'd say that's pretty significant. It's not like, say, black people, who never really accomplished a lot.

I just think your anti-white people shtick is getting old, garbo.

You are culturally white upper (middle) class. You were raised by a white well-off family, which sent you to a prestigious university and you ended up having a cool job in an international corporation, that sent you off to one of the best cities on Earth. You are way more privileged than most white males on this board, not to mention people like an average white male in rural Alabama, where your privilege differs so greatly, you may just as well be living on different planets.

And on top of that, given your skin colour and sexual orientation, if your employer needs to make people redundant, and has you and another white straight married father of four to choose from, then all other things (including your professional performance) being equal, he and not you is much more likely to get the axe.

So climb down from your plush cross, darling. 

I'm not against white people.

[garbon]

I would like to meet my well off white family though.