52% of Americans in favor of soaking the rich.

[Razgovory]

i don't think many people criticize welfare because it helps blacks. most people i see criticizing welfare do so because it helps poor people.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger.

Lee Atwater, Republican strategist.

[Razgovory]

Seriously,  stop talking shit.
From a world of abundance we will all benefit.
A post singularity,  post scarcity society,  is a free society. We will be free to persue our dreams.

You really have a weird idea of this singularity thing.

[viper37]

The internet doesn't work that way.

really?  how does it work then?

I tell you how it works with you, at least
- Non American makes comments on American politics
- Grumbler: I don't know America like you do (hint: you're full of shit, I know better)

- Non American makes on local politics
- Grumbler: I obviously know better than you about your local politics (hint: you're full of shit, I know better).

See, I just saved us 3-4 pages of argument   You should thank me for saving you some time

[viper37]

I think Yi already answered it. Republicans don't care about inequality and they have the power to stop redistribution.

yes, but it's a democracy and the issue isn't new, so it goes deeper than that, imho.
I think it's being said later in the thread (I only glanced at the other posts), but it's simply that while it's an issue, it's not the core issue of your politics.

The average elector cares more about other issues than economic redistribution and the Republicans can sneek in power from time to time and do their best to insure they keep some level of power through electoral district "rebalancing".  I'm pretty sure the Democrats try it too, but they're more divided on this issue than the Republicans are united against, so it doesn't really show.

[crazy canuck]

A while back we had a good discussion about why Americans tend to vote against their own self interest.  As I recall Otto provided a very good explanation for the phenomenon but I cant remember the thread or the context anymore.

[Berkut]

There was a facebook image I saw once that summed up nicely the situation:

Three people (rich guy, poor guy, middle class guy) are sitting around a plate of ten cookies. The rich guy takes 9 of the cookies, then convinces the middle class guy that the poor guy is trying to take HIS cookie!

[Admiral Yi]

There was a facebook image I saw once that summed up nicely the situation:

Three people (rich guy, poor guy, middle class guy) are sitting around a plate of ten cookies. The rich guy takes 9 of the cookies, then convinces the middle class guy that the poor guy is trying to take HIS cookie!

The last time I took exception to this narrative you accused me of playing mindless semantics.

[Berkut]

There was a facebook image I saw once that summed up nicely the situation:

Three people (rich guy, poor guy, middle class guy) are sitting around a plate of ten cookies. The rich guy takes 9 of the cookies, then convinces the middle class guy that the poor guy is trying to take HIS cookie!

The last time I took exception to this narrative you accused me of playing mindless semantics.

That's nice.

[Admiral Yi]

I thought it wasn't.

[grumbler]

The internet doesn't work that way.

really?  how does it work then?

I tell you how it works with you, at least
- Non American makes comments on American politics
- Grumbler: I don't know America like you do (hint: you're full of shit, I know better)

- Non American makes on local politics
- Grumbler: I obviously know better than you about your local politics (hint: you're full of shit, I know better).

See, I just saved us 3-4 pages of argument   You should thank me for saving you some time

Actually, this is precisely the kind of strawman bullshit I was trying to avoid.  But you won't troll me into  any response other than noting that everything in your post (including what you attribute to me) is from you and you alone.

Have fun playing with yourself. 

[Barrister]

i don't think many people criticize welfare because it helps blacks. most people i see criticizing welfare do so because it helps poor people.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger.

Lee Atwater, Republican strategist.

You sure get a lot of mileage from a 34 year old quote.  Do you still think that applies in 2015?

Also from the same interview:

But Reagan did not have to do a southern strategy for two reasons. Number one, race was not a dominant issue. And number two, the mainstream issues in this campaign had been, quote, southern issues since way back in the sixties. So Reagan goes out and campaigns on the issues of economics and of national defense. The whole campaign was devoid of any kind of racism, any kind of reference. And I'll tell you another thing you all need to think about, that even surprised me, is the lack of interest, really, the lack of knowledge right now in the South among white voters about the Voting Rights Act.

[grumbler]

You sure get a lot of mileage from a 34 year old quote.  Do you still think that applies in 2015?

raz is like Timmay and cC:  he loves to toss out some detail or quote as though it was significant, but either lacks the intellect to say how the evidence supports and argument, or recognizes that the evidence doesn't actually support any sensible argument but thinks no one else will catch on that it's bogus if he just tosses it out there without any attempt at analysis.

I suppose it is possible that some people are fooled.

[Razgovory]

You sure get a lot of mileage from a 34 year old quote.  Do you still think that applies in 2015?

raz is like Timmay and cC:  he loves to toss out some detail or quote as though it was significant, but either lacks the intellect to say how the evidence supports and argument, or recognizes that the evidence doesn't actually support any sensible argument but thinks no one else will catch on that it's bogus if he just tosses it out there without any attempt at analysis.

I suppose it is possible that some people are fooled.

I have other quotes as well.  This one was from earlier this week.

This is a joke, right?  The Radio Free Asia web page has no such story, and it sounds very made-up to me (the Chinese government might encourage weakening of Islam, but it are not going to announce such a policy).

A bit less credulity, please.

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/order-05042015133944.html

[Razgovory]

i don't think many people criticize welfare because it helps blacks. most people i see criticizing welfare do so because it helps poor people.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger.

Lee Atwater, Republican strategist.

You sure get a lot of mileage from a 34 year old quote.  Do you still think that applies in 2015?

Also from the same interview:

But Reagan did not have to do a southern strategy for two reasons. Number one, race was not a dominant issue. And number two, the mainstream issues in this campaign had been, quote, southern issues since way back in the sixties. So Reagan goes out and campaigns on the issues of economics and of national defense. The whole campaign was devoid of any kind of racism, any kind of reference. And I'll tell you another thing you all need to think about, that even surprised me, is the lack of interest, really, the lack of knowledge right now in the South among white voters about the Voting Rights Act.

Yes, I think it still applies.  When you have a Republican senator running for President and saying he doesn't want to make black people's lives better by giving them someone Else's money, I think the old narratives apply.

[Barrister]

Yes, I think it still applies.  When you have a Republican senator running for President and saying he doesn't want to make black people's lives better by giving them someone Else's money, I think the old narratives apply.

To be clear: do you think Republicans are continuing to pursue a "southern strategy" in 2015 whereby they use coded policies and terminology to appeal for people's votes based on racism?

If so, how do you reconcile that belief with what Atwater himself had to say about Reagan's 1980 campaign?