NCAA Football 2015

[alfred russel]

What now?

Bad people are going to do bad things. Whether or not they play football for Baylor is up to Baylor, and ultimately Baylor's problem.

IMO.

Obviously the justice system needs to function and obstruction of justice by a football coach or university is unacceptable.

[Valmy]

Let me point out there are two approaches to discipline.

There is the Charlie Strong method, which is lauded by everyone, that has a current win / loss record at UT that is going to result in a rather short tenure if it doesn't improve.

Then there is the Jimbo Fisher method, which involves Jameis Winston QBing the team to a national title and heisman trophy. This method will likely end up with a statue to Jimbo Fisher outside the stadium (which may have a part named for him) if results continue and he sticks around. It might also involve his wife seeing his approach to morality and deciding it is okay to get banged by her personal trainer half her age and a UF grad, though that could be for other unrelated reasons (such as inabilty to perform in the bedroom).

Well Chuck enabling those dudes to rape that girl wasn't going to get Texas better. None of them play line.

And stealing crab legs and screaming obscenities is not quite the same thing. Though maybe you are right. What was on his rap sheet again?

[Valmy]

What now?

Bad people are going to do bad things. Whether or not they play football for Baylor is up to Baylor, and ultimately Baylor's problem.

IMO.

Obviously the justice system needs to function and obstruction of justice by a football coach or university is unacceptable.

Well that is the problem that is created in places like Waco where the local government just does whatever the University wants.

[alfred russel]

And stealing crab legs and screaming obscenities is not quite the same thing. Though maybe you are right. What was on his rap sheet again?

From Wikipedia:

Sexual assault allegation

In November 2013, State Attorney Willie Meggs of the Second Judicial Circuit opened an investigation into an allegation that Winston had sexually assaulted a classmate the previous year. The initial complaint had been filed with the Tallahassee Police Department (TPD) on December 7, 2012;[33] the TPD had classified the case as open/inactive in February 2013.[34][35][36] On December 5, 2013, Meggs announced the completion of the investigation, filing no charges. He stated: "As prosecutors, we only bring charges for cases where the evidence will result in a likely conviction at trial. In this case, the evidence does not show that."[37]

The New York Times published the conclusions of its own investigation in April 2014, asserting that neither the TPD nor FSU had genuinely investigated the initial report. Though a medical examination of the victim revealed bruised knees and semen on the woman's body—and the victim would identify Winston by name as her attacker a month later, Tallahassee police reportedly never obtained a DNA sample from Winston, never interviewed him, nor attempted to obtain video of the encounter taken by Seminoles teammate Chris Casher. The investigation was conducted by Officer Scott Angulo, who, the Times‍ '​ article notes, did private security work for the Seminole Boosters, the primary financier of Florida State athletics.[38]

The official FSU hearing, presided over by retired Florida Supreme Court Justice Major B. Harding, on December 21, 2014, cleared Winston of violating the student conduct code in the sexual assault allegation.[39][40] An extract from Harding's decision[41] is below.

    I do not find the credibility of one story substantially stronger than that of the other. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, (accuser), or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for a violation of the Code. Therein lies the determinative factor of my decision.

Gun complaint

In 2012, Winston and another FSU player were held by campus police for allegedly bringing a BB gun on campus and firing at squirrels. Officers handcuffed Winston but he was later released when it was noticed he was not on campus and the gun was just a BB gun. No charges were filed against Winston in this incident.[42]
Shoplifting incidents

In July 2013, a Burger King employee called police in July to complain that Winston was stealing soda. According to the police report, Winston came in to the restaurant with three men, but did not order any food. An employee, who recognized him, first saw him using ketchup cups to take some soda. He asked for a water cup after she told him to stop, but he said he would use it for soda and filled it repeatedly with soda over her objections, the report said.[43] On April 29, 2014, Winston was issued an adult civil citation for shoplifting crab legs from a Tallahassee Publix store.[44] Winston was ordered to undergo 20 hours of community service and was suspended from any college baseball activity until he completed his community service.
Vulgar comments

On September 17, 2014, Winston was suspended for the first half of Florida State's upcoming game against Clemson. The Guardian reported that "several students tweeted" that Winston shouted, "Fuck her right in the pussy!" an Internet meme,[45] while standing atop a table in Florida State University's Student Union.[46] Two days later, university president Garnett S. Stokes and athletic director Stan Wilcox, citing results of an "ongoing investigation", announced that Winston would be suspended for the whole game.[47]

[Valmy]

Wow. Ok then you got me there. I only got the screaming obscenities and the crab legs thing.

[alfred russel]

Also he called himself a seminole after the native american tribe, played with a spear on his helmet in some faux reference to the tribe, and led his fans in some "tomahawk chop" warchant that was not only highly offensive but also rather militant for a sporting event. When a student rode a horse into the center of the field dressed up in warpaint and threw down a flaming spear, he said not a word in protest.

The school didn't even criticize him for these actions.

[dps]

How was it hidden from the media if he was indicted?

Because it was? It took an investigation by Texas Monthly two years after the incident took place for it to get out. Now granted it was all public record but you have to actually, you know, look it up.

Isn't, you know, looking up that sort of thing the media's job?  Saying it was "hid" implies that there was some sort of conspiracy to keep the media from, you know, doing their job and looking it up.

While the player's past history makes it worse in this case (and the fact that Petersen allegedly made Briles aware of it), I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of taking someone's scholarship and kicking them out of school based solely on an accusation.

I am curious what you saw in my post that led you to think this was the case. We had an incident at UT where a student was raped by two football players. Coach Strong suspended them, looked into it, and kicked them out. That was that in just a couple days.  Did you read my post?

Did you read mine?  I said I'm not comfortable with taking away a student-athlete's scholarship and kicking them out base just on an accusation.  I don't see how Charlie Strong doing otherwise is supposed to make me more comfortable with it.

The whole issue of college athletes and crime is a tricky area.  "Guilty until proven innocent" is an important legal concept IMO, but OTOH, I don't particularly want to see college teams composed of murderers, thieve, rapists, arsonists, etc.  Where guilt is very clear, I don't think you have to wait for a confession or conviction, but some degree of caution needs to be used, otherwise you end up with a situation like that with that lacrosse team a few years ago, where the entire program was axed based on what turned out to be apparently false charges.
[/quote]

[Valmy]

Did you read mine?  I said I'm not comfortable with taking away a student-athlete's scholarship and kicking them out base just on an accusation.  I don't see how Charlie Strong doing otherwise is supposed to make me more comfortable with it.

The whole issue of college athletes and crime is a tricky area.  "Guilty until proven innocent" is an important legal concept IMO, but OTOH, I don't particularly want to see college teams composed of murderers, thieve, rapists, arsonists, etc.  Where guilt is very clear, I don't think you have to wait for a confession or conviction, but some degree of caution needs to be used, otherwise you end up with a situation like that with that lacrosse team a few years ago, where the entire program was axed based on what turned out to be apparently false charges.

You shouldn't be comfortable with that. I was confused that that was your response to my post since I would never claim we just assume everybody accused is guilty. We all remember Duke Lacrosse. I never said people should be booted off for every accusation. "Guilty until proven innocent" is an important concept but this is not just about making sure your college team doesn't consist of criminals this is about the safety of the other students. So a good faith investigation should be launched to see if the accused student should remain on campus. This did not happen at Baylor, they totally passed the buck to law enforcement on this one. And law enforcement, taking their cue from the school, dragged their feet. One DA took it seriously and only because the victim and her family pushed hard on this thing. In alot of circumstances this goes away.

But the main reason I thought Briles was in trouble was because this had gotten out to the national media circus and the Baylor alumni are not going to like that at all. Ken Starr is getting major pressure to take action. We'll see how this goes.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Dan Beebe ‏@DanBeebe  20h20 hours ago
ART BRILES CAREER IS SO DEAD THAT DAVE BLISS IS TRYING TO COVER IT UP AS WE SPEAK

  Damn.

https://twitter.com/DanBeebe

E:  Dude only ended up with 6 months in jail and 10 years probation?

[Valmy]

Also he called himself a seminole after the native american tribe, played with a spear on his helmet in some faux reference to the tribe, and led his fans in some "tomahawk chop" warchant that was not only highly offensive but also rather militant for a sporting event. When a student rode a horse into the center of the field dressed up in warpaint and threw down a flaming spear, he said not a word in protest.

The school didn't even criticize him for these actions.

I wore a burgundy t-shirt with an offensive symbol and racist slur on it to school once at Southwestern and at UT and I was not forcibly removed from campus. Nobody even made me change shirts. Disgusting. Everybody at both schools should be fired.

[Valmy]

Dan Beebe ‏@DanBeebe  20h20 hours ago
ART BRILES CAREER IS SO DEAD THAT DAVE BLISS IS TRYING TO COVER IT UP AS WE SPEAK

  Damn.

https://twitter.com/DanBeebe

E:  Dude only ended up with 6 months in jail and 10 years probation?

Yep. The Jury recomended 8 years probation. For felony sexual assault? Good thing he did not possess a little weed then he might have been in real trouble.

[grumbler]

But the main reason I thought Briles was in trouble was because this had gotten out to the national media circus and the Baylor alumni are not going to like that at all.

All responsible college football head coaches prepare their players for the NFL, even if some of them aren't going to make it.  Even if Ukwuachu was never going to be a pro, Briles could use him as an example of what the players could expect from the NFL when they engage in domestic violence or sexual asault.

[alfred russel]

Also he called himself a seminole after the native american tribe, played with a spear on his helmet in some faux reference to the tribe, and led his fans in some "tomahawk chop" warchant that was not only highly offensive but also rather militant for a sporting event. When a student rode a horse into the center of the field dressed up in warpaint and threw down a flaming spear, he said not a word in protest.

The school didn't even criticize him for these actions.

I wore a burgundy t-shirt with an offensive symbol and racist slur on it to school once at Southwestern and at UT and I was not forcibly removed from campus. Nobody even made me change shirts. Disgusting. Everybody at both schools should be fired.

They probably didn't act because they expected you to be lynched by angry Cowboy fans.

[grumbler]

A bit of humor for Big Ten fans, courtesy of EDSBS: http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2015/8/18/9172065/if-you-like-this-youll-love-the-big-ten

Money quotes:

IF YOU LIKE: imagining living life as Saved by the Bell's Zach Morris*, in which you never face actual challenges, can skip tests and alienate others, and still have all of your friends, teachers, and principal willing to lie on the ground and die for you for no real reason. Even your best friend, who hates you, seems to simultaneously do nothing but think of things to do for you, when he's not wearing Hammer pants and trying to get to third base with the three women who are apparently allowed to attend your high school. Your school is kind of weird.

YOU'LL LOVE: Ohio State.

IF YOU LIKE: Alcohol, being really good at many things but never quite the best at anything, alcohol, cheese, alcohol, "Apollo 13," never complaining about the weather, ice fishing, making sausage out of nontraditional meats, sturdy pants, keeping the windows open in sub 20 degree weather, alcohol. God, alcohol is great. Have you ever stood in a snowdrift while wearing shorts and felt nothing at all? That's the good stuff. Also, cheese.

YOU'LL LOVE: Wisconsin.

IF YOU LIKE: That moment in "Air Force One" when someone spoils Michigan-Notre Dame for the President by telling him that Michigan won by 1, which would definitely happen and would actually cause the President to have that staffer heaved off the plane, which is what he should have done with that film crew who were SO OBVIOUSLY terrorists I mean come ON did no one do a security screening? Was no one like, "wait, who are you with?" Were they even CREDENTIALED? Did you not make some fucking phone calls? Are you EVEN FUCKING TRYING? INACCURATE ACTION MOVIES ARE A BANE ON THIS NATION'S GOOD NAME.

YOU'LL LOVE: Michigan.

IF YOU LIKE: Defending traditions. They just don't understand, do they? It's a conspiracy, it really is. People telling you that "your offensive line is butt" and "your quarterback went through more emotional upheaval than Drake did after he got shot on that episode of Degrassi" is just MORE anti-you sentiment based on nothing but LIES and PURPOSEFUL MISINTERPRETING OF THE FACTS because YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING and YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT EVEN FROM HERE AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT OUR AWESOME ICE CREAM STORE AND PUT THE STATUE BACK UP AND MICHIGAN GOT TWO SECONDS BACK IN 2005 AND EVERYONE IS A CHEATER EXCEPT FOR US BECAUSE WE DO THINGS THE RIGHT WAY RIGHT MATT MILLEN YEAH RIGHT

YOU'LL LOVE: Penn State.

IF YOU LIKE: Not really being good enough, but that's cool. You've got dreams. And you're not like THOSE assholes. You know the ones. Other side of the state, think they're SO special. They don't even TALK about you, but you know they think about you all the time. I mean, you think about THEM all the time so obviously they think about you EVEN MORE. You've been to Pasadena! You're a winner! No one can tell you what to do! Especially not those douchebags. Bunch of self-obsessed dicks, you say to yourself, carefully making your "scUM" user image for when you comment on MLive.com stories. You comment a lot.

YOU'LL LOVE: Michigan State.

Man, those are so right on!

[Rasputin]

Also he called himself a seminole after the native american tribe, played with a spear on his helmet in some faux reference to the tribe, and led his fans in some "tomahawk chop" warchant that was not only highly offensive but also rather militant for a sporting event. When a student rode a horse into the center of the field dressed up in warpaint and threw down a flaming spear, he said not a word in protest.

The school didn't even criticize him for these actions.

This happened. I personally witnessed it many times, and I loved him for it.