RIP Lee Kwan Yew

[Martinus]

Disagree. I think he's one of the father figures of the modern East Asian model and considerably more influential than any PM of Singapore has a right to be.

Between your love for the Catholic Church, sympathy for Mike Huckabee and this, your politics is frequently very bizarre. Did you lack a strong father figure in your upbringing or something, as you seem to yearn for a paternalistic authoritarianism.

[Valmy]

See, he has done it.  It is not a theory. Here is a rich, generally happy, peaceful one-party state that holds genuine, if flawed elections every few years, and the people vote for it every time.  It may not be much in the eyes of the US or western Europe.  But for places like China, Iraq, Afganistan etc, Singapore can serve as a role model.

Of course it is not a theory. It happens every once in a while and people put up with Caligulas in the hopes the next one will be Trajan. I prefer my governments being able to function with complete drooling incompetents in charge, like in Texas.

[Admiral Yi]

Disagree. I think he's one of the father figures of the modern East Asian model and considerably more influential than any PM of Singapore has a right to be.

The modern East Asian model?  I can agree there is an East Asian economic model, but I don't see many political similarities.

[Martinus]

See, he has done it.  It is not a theory. Here is a rich, generally happy, peaceful one-party state that holds genuine, if flawed elections every few years, and the people vote for it every time.  It may not be much in the eyes of the US or western Europe.  But for places like China, Iraq, Afganistan etc, Singapore can serve as a role model.

Of course it is not a theory. It happens every once in a while and people put up with Caligulas in the hopes the next one will be Trajan. I prefer my governments being able to function with complete drooling incompetents in charge, like in Texas.

Yeah, the problem with dictatorships is not that it is inacapable of producing a great leader (although absolute power corrupts absolutely so it is a question for how long one can stay great) but that it is incapable of preventing a monster, if one comes around.

[Martinus]

Disagree. I think he's one of the father figures of the modern East Asian model and considerably more influential than any PM of Singapore has a right to be.

The modern East Asian model?  I can agree there is an East Asian economic model, but I don't see many political similarities.

Well, there is North Korea, too.

[Monoriu]

See, he has done it.  It is not a theory. Here is a rich, generally happy, peaceful one-party state that holds genuine, if flawed elections every few years, and the people vote for it every time.  It may not be much in the eyes of the US or western Europe.  But for places like China, Iraq, Afganistan etc, Singapore can serve as a role model.

Of course it is not a theory. It happens every once in a while and people put up with Caligulas in the hopes the next one will be Trajan. I prefer my governments being able to function with complete drooling incompetents in charge, like in Texas.

Like I said, you can't compare Singapore with the US.  The US will never adopt the Singaporean model.  But imagine yourself being a mainland Chinese, or an Iraqi.  Suddenly Singapore seems like a much better alternative than what you have right now.  If, for whatever reason, you can't adopt liberal democracy overnight, there is another possibility out there.

[Martinus]

What makes Lick One Jew a scumbag, though, is that he worked to consolidate his power and to silence opponents - getting more and more oppressive in each year - so exactly the opposite to what you are implying, Mono (i.e. a suggestion that this can serve as some sort of a transitory state to liberal democracy).

[Norgy]

Singapore is probably one of the least desirable models of economic development I can think of. Along with the PRC.

There's affluence, but not a good life.

[Camerus]

Mono is right that the Singaporean example - sometimes as a shining exemplar of so-called "Asian values" - is one frequently held up by gradual-reform CCPers as the ultimate goal for China, and that is part of Lee's legacy (for better or for worse).  Of course, whether that model would be viable on the scale of a nation as large as China is another question, and my own view is that it probably wouldn't be.

[Martinus]

Singapore is probably one of the least desirable models of economic development I can think of. Along with the PRC.

There's affluence, but not a good life.

Well, Brunei is probably worse.

[grumbler]

See, he has done it.  It is not a theory.  Here is a rich, generally happy, peaceful one-party state that holds genuine, if flawed elections every few years, and the people vote for it every time.  It may not be much in the eyes of the US or western Europe.  But for places like China, Iraq, Afganistan etc, Singapore can serve as a role model.

I don't think that Singapore (nor China itself) can really serve as a role model in this regard for countries that don't have something like the tradition of "the Mandate of Heaven," where government legitimacy depends on the government being virtuous and thus successful.  The key to the success of Singapore (and, at least until recently, China) was that the ruling class had a genuine sense of obligation to serve the interests of the people and keep personal gain to a reasonable level.  No such sense of obligation exists in the warlord class of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Uganda, etc.

I agree with you, though, that Lee was one of the most significant Asian statesmen of the 20th Century.  Singapore is much better-poised for true democracy than is, say, India.

[Valmy]

Singapore is much better-poised for true democracy than is, say, India.

What does India have now exactly?

[Martinus]

Given that India is the world's largest democracy and it functions fairly well, I am perplexed by grumbler's statement.

[grumbler]

Singapore is much better-poised for true democracy than is, say, India.

What does India have now exactly?

An extraordinary corrupt facade of democracy that only Marti could look at and say 'that functions fairly well."

[The Minsky Moment]

Singapore is much better-poised for true democracy than is, say, India.

What does India have now exactly?

Over a billion people spread across a variety of regions and climates.
Not much in common with the city-state of Singapore.